200R4 Transmissions - Who Currently Has the BEST DEAL???

[Guest Mike]

jakeshoe... So it's possible to go with a full manual 4L80E including a decent stall converter for $1000-1200? That sounds pretty good, actually!!

[jakeshoe]

I doubt it could be done for $1200, but maybe $1500.

 

The cheapest I have gotten 4L80 cores for is about $450, you might luck upon one cheaper, but it's unlikely.

The cheapest I have bought a "good working" unit for from a wrecking yard was $1100.

So say you found a trans with some type of warranty from a wrecking yard for $1000, then $200 for the manual kit, then a few bucks more for a filter, pan gasket, front and rear seals, and then you still need a converter. A stock replacement converter is about $200, any type of mild performance converter (2000-2500 stall) is $400+, and any type of real performance converter is a $700+ deal.

 

Then you still have the issues with speedo hookup. It is a $500 kit to make it work with a mechanical speedo, or a $300 converter box, or you could use an electronic speedo for $200 or so.

 

It adds up.

[Guest Mike]

Well crap... speed costs $$$, doesn't it? Maybe I can find an old wrecked pickup with a 4L80E for cheap... or one that's being parted out??

[Corzette]

I doubt it could be done for $1200, but maybe $1500.

 

The cheapest I have gotten 4L80 cores for is about $450, you might luck upon one cheaper, but it's unlikely.

The cheapest I have bought a "good working" unit for from a wrecking yard was $1100.

So say you found a trans with some type of warranty from a wrecking yard for $1000, then $200 for the manual kit, then a few bucks more for a filter, pan gasket, front and rear seals, and then you still need a converter. A stock replacement converter is about $200, any type of mild performance converter (2000-2500 stall) is $400+, and any type of real performance converter is a $700+ deal.

 

Then you still have the issues with speedo hookup. It is a $500 kit to make it work with a mechanical speedo, or a $300 converter box, or you could use an electronic speedo for $200 or so.

 

It adds up.

 

Yup! What Jake said...thats one reason I went the route I did but ZGAD can tell ya that a TH400 or 4L80 is very stout unit when built right....9.34s?

 

Terry

[Guest Mike]

Okay... thats about $1700-1800 for a decent j/y 4L80E and all the peripherals not counting the speedo fixes. I'm relacing my guages anyway so the speepo issue doesn't exist.

 

Here is what I have so far...

 

200R4 BTO Stage 3 (?quality?) = $1300

200R4 Built w/ GN core (Jake) = $1900+

200R4 Raptor Stage 2 complete = $1600

4L80E j/y plus the peripherals = $1800+

 

This look right?

[jakeshoe]

Are you including a converter with the 4L80 at that price?

 

You can probably obtain a 4L80 for $1000 and then the manual kit and other assorted parts for about $300, since you dont need a speedo box or housing.

[Guest Mike]

Hi Jake... Yes, the price includes a stall converter. I figured about $500 for one. If I'm lucky/frugal I might be able to put a "decent" 4L80 together for $1300-1400?? Of course, this won't be the quality you can provide but it'll likely be okay in my little ride. I'm not pushing the HP/torque you guys are. Besides, a factory stock 4L80 is a fairly stout transmission. I just didn't want to go this route due to added weight and power loss.

 

Frankly... I'm STILL undecided!!

[jakeshoe]

The rotating mass inside a 200-4R is gonan be less than a 4L80. It has some pretty lightweight parts, but this is also the reason they aren't as strong as a 400 or 4L80.

MY personal feeling is the 200-4R can be reliably built to handle the 550-600 lb ft torque range for a "reasonable" price. They can be built to the 800 Hp/TQ range for a pretty spendy price but I think even with all the billet internals, the 200-4R will be marginal at the 800 range due to the direct clutch holding power.

 

I prefer the 4L80 in anything over the 600 lb ft range, as I can build it with nothing fancy, honestly stock, except for a 34 element sprag (same upgrade as a TH400) some minor internal mods, and a valve body kit, and they can handle 800 HP with no sweat. If I need it to go over 800 HP, I can use a better billet forward hub (same as a 400), and do some other tricks internally. I am still cheaper off than doing a billet everything 200-4R and more peace of mind.

 

I also like the programmability of an electronically controlled unit.

 

As I stated before, about 450 lb ft is all I trust even a totally upgraded 700 or 4L60E to. I know of some who have made more power with them but it almost always short lived. Sometimes very short lived.

 

The TH350, I build them and trust them to the 600 lb/ft or HP level easily. I have several proven Th350's in wheels up race cars. One ran for over 2 yrs without being touched in a mid 10 second car. It is probably still out there somewhere, the car was stolen.

I think the Th350 can probablyt marginally handle 800 HP. Chris at CKperformance states that it is hydraullically capable of 1500 HP like a TH400, but that the planetaries will only hold 800 or so. I tend to agree.

 

The 400 has been proven to handle 1200 hp fairly reliably with the right mods and honestly, it doesn't take much. I have built TH400's for a 1400-1500 HP monster truck. They were not very fancy...

 

The Glide is a good unit due to it's simplicity. No sprags to break, one 2 speed, A low band and a high clutch, man it doesn't get any easier.

 

One thiong that is good to remember when dealing with the Z car, it is a relatively lightweight package. It will make it easier on a trans.

If you were making 600 HP/TQ and planned a small stage of N2O on a 3900 lb Chevelle, I would try to talk you into a 4L80.

However the same package with a Z car, I think the 200-4R can be pretty reliable at the level of build I recommend.

I recommend this level of build because I think it is reliable, but without getting into the point of diminishing returns where you have so much money invested in a trans but for the same amount you could have already had a better unit.

Once you get into a trans, you have the converter, you have the driveshaft, you have the crossmember setup, etc. that to change units, is a real PITA.

So then it becomes cheaper to fix the unreliable unit, than to swap over to a better trans.

 

The key here is that you need to be honest with yourself and the builder of your power goals and intended use, and that way you can get a good unit up front and hopefully not have any issues.

 

In the 200-4R world, there are only a few I would trust to build me a transmission. Chris at CK is at the top of that list.

 

A 4L80E, you could likely run a wrecking yard unit reliably with minor mods. If it was healthy, nothing but a valve body kit should make it live forever in most Z car applications.

[Guest Mike]

At this point, I can feel the jello in my brain firming up. A good used low-mile 4L80 with minor mods and full manual shift is sounding pretty good. If I can find one with the ECU for an affordable price, that's even better.

 

ALL: THANK YOU for sharing your your technical savvy, practical experience, and especially your patience with an inexperienced old f-art like me.

 

Unless I hear any caveats (PLEASE SPEAK UP NOW), I've made a decision and will act on it.

[Guest Mike]

I just found a Raptor Level 3 "Quadzilla" for sale (Best Offer).

 

Wish me luck!!

[Cable]

I am seriously considering the 4L80 too, what years/models did they come in?

 

Thanks!!

[jakeshoe]

1991-up GM 3/4 ton and larger trucks. Used behind the 454's, 8.1's and some 6.0L's usually.

[Guest Mike]

I think the 4L80E mostly came in heavy-duty pickups with the larger motors. There were a number of changes over the years but I don't know what they were other than the flow of fluid. I chose the Quadzilla due to it's reputation and a lucky find. If this pans out, I'll probably never have to buy another transmission or have any work done to this one.