rubin Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 This is not Z related, so forgive me about that basically me and a friend are planning on making an aluminum trailer to carry 3 motorbikes. What I'm wondering is how worried I should be about weakening the metal by welding it. There are aluminum trailers out there and they are all welded together so I dont think its a big concern. These will be dirt bikes and total weight will NEVER be greater than 1500lbs. Another question is what exacly happens when aluminum is being welded. Does it weaken because of the sudden increase of temperture and then sudden decrease? Should aluminum be baked and cooled in a controlled manner after welding to bring the strength back? Many bikes use aluminum frames, does anyone know how they do it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Most if not all are TIG or more correctly termed, GTAW welded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Wroght aluminum is available in various tempers indicated by a "T" and a number designation after the alloy. 6061 T6 is a commonly available wrought alloy with "T651" being the temper. Aluminum alloys in as wrought form as give a temper designation of "T0". Most 50552 and 6061 alloys are heat treated after manufacture. The first treatment is a heating to 1000F and holding the material there for a short time. This gives a temper designation of "T4". Addtion steps are taken (3 hours at 400F) to bring the material to a "T6" designation. When you properly weld any heat treated aluminum alloy, the weld itself and the heat affected zone are brought back to a T0 temper which gives that area of the material the same strength as it was originally wrought. 6061 T6 aluminum plate has yield strength of 40Ksi and a tensile strength of 45Ksi. 6061 T0 aluminum plate has a yield strength of 30Ksi and a tensile strength of 35Ksi. Pre and post weld heat control is not necessary with aluminum and it won't "save" the temper that's lost in welding. For your application, proper material alloy, type, and wall thickness is more important then maintaining temper. You can weld aluminum using GMAW or GTAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Most if not all are TIG or more correctly termed, GTAW welded. Actually, most aluminum structures are MIG (GMAW) welded. My Featherlite aluminum race trailer is all MIG welded as are most tow truck roll-off beds, pontoon boats, semi-truck trailers, building trusses, motorhomes, Z06 Corvette frames, Nissan 350Z subframes, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubin Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 thats great news, so I should be more concerned with wall thickness, welding penetration and using the same materials more than anything. I will be designing the thing on solidworks and if I remember I'll post a picture of it on here later on to see ur comments. Also does anyone know the specifics on cetrifying a custom trailer like this in ontario??? thanks a lot guys for the quick responses. I love this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avrfan Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 so you're using solidworks to design it. Are you using standard angle, channel, extrusions etc for the design? I would love to get a copy of the part and drawing files after completion if possible. thats great news, so I should be more concerned with wall thickness, welding penetration and using the same materials more than anything. I will be designing the thing on solidworks and if I remember I'll post a picture of it on here later on to see ur comments. Also does anyone know the specifics on cetrifying a custom trailer like this in ontario??? thanks a lot guys for the quick responses. I love this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonus079 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Actually, most aluminum structures are MIG (GMAW) welded. My Featherlite aluminum race trailer is all MIG welded as are most tow truck roll-off beds, pontoon boats, semi-truck trailers, building trusses, motorhomes, Z06 Corvette frames, Nissan 350Z subframes, etc. in most cases they use a tig or stick welder mated with a spool gun. its rare to see a true mig welder welding aluminum (by true mig i mean the wire is stored in the welder case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 This is an excellent source for aluminum welding info http://www.alcotec.com/techpage.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 its rare to see a true mig welder welding aluminum (by true mig i mean the wire is stored in the welder case). I guess you've never seen a push-pull setup like a Python, Cobra, Robo, or XR-A. Very common in high production aluminum MIG welding. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wire_feeders/xr_a__air_cooled__gun/ http://www.abicorusa.com/sppw401d.htm http://www.weldingmag.com/323/Issue/Article/False/10982/Issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonus079 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 nope i havent, not atleast on a wide scale compared to spool guns and wirefeeders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/aluminium-welding.htm this is an excellent link about MIG welding aluminum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubin Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 thanks for all the response the design is more or less complete and ill show pics some time soon. my friend should be buying some materials soom and we'll start cutting things up btw, anyone know a good source for such metal in toronto area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubin Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 heres the final result, we tried to keep everything simple and light as it will mostly carry light dirtbikes of around 250-300lbs each. Also it will be towed using an escort so light weight is important let me know what you guys think. and if someone who has experience building trailers could give me some opinions thatd be great ps. all the materials at 1/8inch thickness. I think that should be thick enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okimoto Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 What happens if you hit a bump and bend the C-channel? I'd feel safer with perimeter framing with angle brackets with the V facing downwards welded to the frame and to the C channel rails. I'm not engineer, but it feels as if you're pushing down on those C channels quite a bit. Not only with the tie downs, but every bump in the road. The channel could suddenly bend inwards or outwards and with the bikes tied down, the suspension on the bikes would push down on the C channel rail, causing the frame to tweak and possibly hit the ground. Maybe with even just an angle iron welded to the bottom of the channels, that would help keep the load off the sides of the channel? What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The main square tube for the hitch needs to be 1/4" wall. It should also be tied into two longitudinal members that mount the suspension (not shown in the picture). All the trailer loads will go through four suspension mounting points and the hitch. Those all need to be tied together and square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubin Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 I assumed that I could use those C channels as frame rails. I mean it sure seems like a massive 8x3 C channel would be stronger than a small square tubing The suspension will bolt excacly in between the two middle square tubes and should provide the support from there. I didn't want to extend the main square tube all the way back because of less suspension clearance and again assumed the C channel would be stong enough for that I am also unsure what is meant by this: "angle brackets with the V facing downwards" i will make another quick rendering and include the features u guys mentioned and run cosmosworks on it(stress analysis tool) althought i dont think I am using it correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okimoto Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Sorry for the confusion. Basically you would take a 1 or 2 inch angle iron and put it against the C channel so that both ends of the angle iron are resting on the C Channel. The angle iron is then welded to the bottom of the C channel, giving it more rigidity. the downside would be that the heat would warp the metals and possibly make it worse? Aluminum is tough for me to control the heat on. I had to make a flat back for my backpack out of 1" by 4" by 1/16" strips of aluminum and when I was done, it looked like a 2 foot square model of the waves in the ocean. Some of the nicer machines with the pulser and auto cleaning settings would have done a better job though but thats besides the point. Sorry. I look forward to seeing your next model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I assumed that I could use those C channels as frame rails. I mean it sure seems like a massive 8x3 C channel would be stronger than a small square tubing If you 8" x 3" C-channels are only .125" thick they really are just sheet aluminum and not very massive. Set them between two saw horses and you can easily bend them with your own body weight (or maybe mine, I'm probalby close to "massive" then you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roostmonkey Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 IMHO theres no reason to fab a dirtbike trailor in Aluminum.The comercially made units are so light that the 50lbs +- weight savings isnt worth the extra cost of materials and welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roostmonkey Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Last year I built a car Z car carrier and hemmed and hawed over steel or alum.After weighing it all out, I went with steel.I call it a Z car carrier because its only rated for a 2600lb vehicle. I used steel for the structure and alum for the ramps ( and the bling ).Total weight for the traler came to 910lbs.This basic design can easily be used for a bike trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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