dr_hunt Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Doc you are the man!I hadn't thought that one can get away with that kind of lift with a roller set up but, I hadnt ever heard of .600 lift as mild. I think that would be "Doc" mild. Im very old school with the flat tappet set with a cam grind at .495 but trying to make up for it in duration. Is it true that duration can be very benificial where more lift can sometime net less gains. Including RPMs? Any how, when I get home today Im going to be "mild" and enjoy some Canadian Whiskey. Normally I would go for a Martini. You rule Doc! Interestingly enough Aries Duntov (sp?) had the same idea. The 30/30 solid lift z28 grind was such a cam. Alot of duration but not alot of lift. What he was doing was getting more top end from heads that didn'tflow alot of air at high lift numbers. Similarly, I do the same as some heads don't flow well at high valve lift numbers, ie. sportsman II heads. So, run .525 lift and up the duration. If I were to have a daily driver I'd keep the lift under .550 or so to minimize valve guide wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Another thought I have had... I am not looking to maximise the performance of my engine.... 350HP... easy goal... I don't need a lot of the expensive parts used in the top end... With decent 9.5/1 compression I can pretty much stay in the low to midpriced range for the entire valvetrain and the timing set... I don't need to turn the thing at 7000RPM... I can shift at 5800RPM and still have plenty of legs for the track... But it does need to run cool and have good endurance for long periods of abuse... I have been in MANY C-5 Corvettes while the dash is blanking out everything to display OIL OVERTEMP... and then the ailing Corvette drivers subsequently let the Datsuns by on the next straight... Ignition will be EDIS/Megajolt adapted to a Chevy balancer(I have a lathe and a part number for a 36 tooth gear)... This is more of a chassis related requirement than performance related... The oil system will be conventional but well prepped for track use... Pan, pickup, hevy duty pump, cooler, thermostat, accusump, big friggin idiot light... As far as high dollar top end.... I have had bad experiences in the past with broken stock rockers and chunks in the oilpan locking things up... I could really use some ideas on the type of top end parts you would use in an engine that will see potentially hundreds of hours at 3000-5800RPMs... without blowing the bank... I am thinking that I should be looking at some of the BOAT related internals... They see high rpm for long periods of time.. and they are not using billet titanium rockers in those ski boats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1 240Z Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 buy an LS1 and put a $3000 dry sump on it. you would still be well in your $6000 range and you would have a motor that is at the base of performance, rather than the peak (sbc). the probably with LSx motors is that the oil gets away from their pickup tubes, the simple solution is to run an extra quart of oil. an LSx with rodbolts, valve springs, pushrods and a capable oiling system could stay at 7,000rpm for days on end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 A $3000 dry sump is going to have it's own set of operational costs.... No doubt.. it is a good way to ensure good oiling... But it would also require tearing down the engine to safely install... and it is a maintenance pig with plumbing GALORE!!!! There are so many other modifications that need to be addressed.. like the oil puking into the intake and other oil control issues... No doubt the LSx is a GREAT choice!!!! It is a fantastic motor.. But I am looking at all kinds of increased costs associated with installing it in my hotrod.. and making it track reliable... not the least of which is the fact that I do not want to trade all of it's weight advantages to a heavier transmission... I have found several slightly used ZZ4 and ZZ383 engines for less than $3000.... I have also found a neat source for used race engines... www.racingjunk.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 as far as new parts go... It looks like I can get stout prepped short block for $2400 with all forged parts cheap aluminum heads for around $1000 Cam, lifters, pushrods, rockers, girdles, timing set for another $1000 (good to 6KPRM) intake, carby(cheap) $500 Flywheel, clutch, starter $600 Oil pump, pan with windage tray and pickup $140 That is $5640 without shipping... call it complete minus ignition... Mate it to my WCT5 and GO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 John I know this is the Chevy forum but look what is on our local craigslist: ford mustang dss racing motor for sale - $3000 this is a 306 motor with very little miles on it this is a proven motor on the street and the track.dss racing built the short block it is 9:5:1 compression with eldebrock aluminum heads,forged pistons,comp cam 565 lift,roller rockers,eldebrock intake eveything was bought new to build this motor,the best of everything has run 7.50 off motor in the eight mile very streetable and dependable,intake to oil pan, just add your carburator have a awsome motor cant build for this price 3,ooo obo can hear run still in car Have you driven a Ford lately? LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 not a Ford!!!! damn that is a good deal... But I have a carefully laid out set of goals for my CHEVY V-8 project... 1. LIGHTWEIGHT.. PERIOD... lighter the better... 2. CHEAP... This is already becomming a $15,000 car project... I can upgrade motors later... I need something to get me by for a season or two while I tune the chassis... I dont want to significantly change the weight balance of my car every time I swap engines... The initial cheapo motor needs to be as light as any later high power engine I night install at a later date... Correct me if I am wrong... But I could use ANY Corvette engine from 1986- until they went to the LS series... That is a wide range of engines including all of the LT engines... What years and Models of the Camaros used the aluminum head LT engines...???? My WCT-5 transmission will bolt to ANY of the LT engines as well right???? It seems that every Corvette made since 1986-1/2 has had a lightweight engine with aluminum heads... I am not averse to the idea of the early TPI systems... 1988-1991 C-4 Corvettes... Remember I am not making a drag race monster... 350HP PLENTY.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ford mustang dss racing motor for sale - $3000 this is a 306 motor with very little miles on it this is a proven motor on the street and the track.dss racing built the short block it is 9:5:1 compression with eldebrock aluminum heads,forged pistons,comp cam 565 lift,roller rockers,eldebrock intake eveything was bought new to build this motor,the best of everything has run 7.50 off motor in the eight mile very streetable and dependable,intake to oil pan, just add your carburator have a awsome motor cant build for this price 3,ooo obo can hear run still in car Cough, Cough, in what a 1500lb car? I seriously doubt the performance claims in anything heavier than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I knew that was comming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCZ Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi Dr Hunt, Sorry I don't have any other info - that is just a local ad. Probably run in a Mustang, I would guess. Is 7.50 particularly fast for a 1/8 mile run? I know nothing about drag racing other than it looks like a lot of fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 ok dammit.... lots of lightweight Chevy engine ideas flyin around in here... hmpfff... screw power, screw drag raying.. this is a track car and I already have everything except the ENGINE... needed.. one lightweight chevy engine that will bolt up to my WCT-5 tranny... It looks like damn near ANY Corvette engine from 1986 to the late 1990s will work... anyone know about any wrecked low miles C-4 corvettes...???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi Dr Hunt, Sorry I don't have any other info - that is just a local ad. Probably run in a Mustang, I would guess. Is 7.50 particularly fast for a 1/8 mile run? I know nothing about drag racing other than it looks like a lot of fun! To put it mildly. A 306 fully built, solid roller cammed, with compression and NOS might get that done in a 2750lb race weight car. On motor with 9.5 compression, not a chance unless it weighs like 1500lb. One of these days I should do a ford engine. All motor and see what I could squeeze out of it. I've done several of the clevors for circle track back 10 years ago and I wasn't all that impressed. But today we have heads like AFR's and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 In general I think that you're better off with a Camaro engine than a Corvette engine and this is discussed more extensively in the JTR book (mainly due to accessory placement, but maybe you won't be using the them). All F-body LT1's have the aluminum heads, but I'm not sure about earlier engines. If you go with an LT1 you may need to switch to a 153 tooth flywheel like what came standard on mid 80's to early 90's 305 V8 f-body cars (they used T-5 transmissions). If you look for a pre LT1 engine, than you will have more work to get to your 350 HP goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 The Corvette engine will get converted to a V belt running the alternator and waterpump... I will do what it takes to delete any smog equip.. I may convert to Mega Squirt and Spark... Do the LT series engines or any of the earlier L-98 Corvette engines present any problems by having externally balanced flywheel or damper....??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ok dammit.... lots of lightweight Chevy engine ideas flyin around in here... hmpfff... screw power, screw drag raying.. this is a track car and I already have everything except the ENGINE... needed.. one lightweight chevy engine that will bolt up to my WCT-5 tranny... OK My .02. If you are going to rip up the track, considering how light the Z is, drop a mild build Chebby tree fitty. You will fly down the track and you wont be able to break that motor. Get er done!!! One of these days I should do a ford engine. All motor and see what I could squeeze out of it. I've done several of the clevors for circle track back 10 years ago and I wasn't all that impressed. But today we have heads like AFR's and the like. Hey Doc. When you get to that point. Call me. If the numbers are right, and it can be driven on the street, Id consider buying/financing it. Now....back to the Chebby talk. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 ...Do the LT series engines or any of the earlier L-98 Corvette engines present any problems by having externally balanced flywheel or damper....???Not sure about earlier engines, but the stock LT1 is externally balanced. I know some people internally balance them when they redo the lower end, so you've got to know whether it's internally or externally balanced if you change flywheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 "One of these days I should do a ford engine..." DOC... Say it isn't so!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 One of these days Im going to do a Chebby engine!! There, were even!! Seriously, I have had many a 350 and still own in a Jimmy, with the Chebby tree fitty. Cant kill it. The truck is lifted with 33s, four wheel drive. Has headers and a new carb only. It's always in four whell drive as it works basicly on the ranch. I mean you can not kill this beast. and I give er hell!! Repeat...mild build chebby tree fitty and put your foot in it! No need to make the deal complicated. You will have plenty of power. Go racing....... In road racing it's not all about the motor. If you are generating decent power to weight, it's the driver. Thats the most important consideration, among important considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 [ Hey Doc. When you get to that point. Call me. If the numbers are right, and it can be driven on the street, Id consider buying/financing it. Now....back to the Chebby talk. My bad. I'm not as biased as you all might think. The sbf has some inherent drawbacks considering factory blocks and heads. Blocks suck, heads don't flow. But, if you get a dart block and some AFR heads, then your in the ball game, just down on cubes. Ala Eagle crank and rods and we have that brought up to at least a level playing field, but at the cost of mucho dinero. 383 build is next week, after that I have a proposed 434 build for a hybridz member, so after that if I win the lottery your in. Well, maybe you win the lottery and your in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The doc is going to the ford side??? Maybe there is $ to be made in the boat anchor bussiness. I am just kidding guys, LOL! Here is a small block based ford, with cubes. See link: http://www.theengineshop.com/prods_pages/102075.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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