Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Yes Ron, you can run the vented 4runner setup on 4lug hubs. Nothing 'kicks the hub face' necessarily (a few have posted it that way lately), perhaps nitpicking but I just want to be sure others understand it as it is. The 5lug hubs add ~1" in offset to the hub face. The rotor spacers that allow one to run 4runner vented setups do nothing with the hub face, they move the rotor INWARD. Sounds like you got it down pat Ron, just followed up as I did as someone posted the 'moved hub outward' lately and I didn't have time to respond. Two different spacers for the 4runner vented 4lug setup, depending on if you have 240 or 280 hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno74Z Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Ron, You are correct about the 5 lug hub - it places the wheel mounting surface approximately 19mm outward from the original 4 lug mounting surface. I made a very costly mistake (I won't go into it) but one needs to add this dimension back into the equation when doing the 4 to 5 lug conversion. This has a HUGE impact when ordering rims. I'm sure you will have a much higher clamping force with the Toy calipers and yes you can use the stock rotor. With some good pads you should be fine for a daily driver with a much improved brake system. I'm not an expert on the front brakes yet as I am still working out my rear brake system. However, based on all the information I have, if you do repetitive braking with the Toy conversion you will still have brake fade because the rotor being solid will get hot very quickly and hold the heat for a long time. To truly upgrade the fronts one needs to use a vented rotor. Danno74Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Thanks Guys.I have no room for off set changes,so I should of checked before I went for the 5-lug with brake upgrade.Now it will just be "brake upgrade"I have stuff for sale of the Buy/Sell board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 I was going to do the 5 lug front conversion.84-86 turbo hubs and rotors w/the Mike "scca" spacer and the Toyota 4Runner calipers.The problem I'm going to have doing it this way is it kicks the hub face out towards the fender lip around a 1" I was told.Can I just bolt on the 4Runner caliper with the stock 4 lug hub and rotor and have a brake upgrade???I'm not so concerned with the 5 lug anymore,just a little better braking in the front.I have heard the that the calipers are the week link on the front of these ZCars?Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jap tin Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Ron, you know that those Toyota calipers have got to weigh more than the Datsun ones. I thought you were looking for ways to make your car lighter Just playing with ya ...Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Depends on how much $ presently available, use and future plans. But my experience is that the Toyota 4 spots on standard rotors are pretty useless as an improvement. They weigh a ton, don't solve the heat problem and you end up with more brake pedal travel using the stock master cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 quoteToyota 4 spots on standard rotors are pretty useless as an improvement Why do you say this? I agree that the additional fluid displacement adds travel to a stock master cylinder, but that is easily replaced with one from an early 280ZX. Problem solved. You should upgrade the master cylinder anyway if you're doing any brake upgrades, as everything you do will require more fluid displacment. The stock solid rotor is of an adequate size for most situations, enabling a decent amount of brake torque; while being solid, it will heat up and retain more heat than a vented setup, but it still takes a while. Unless you're racing and repeatedly braking very hard, you're not going to encounter any fade. Decent pads and some ducting can alleviate some of the heat symptoms too BTW. I'd say the 4pots and stock rotor are a very worthwhile and very cheap upgrade from stock. Braking ability is very much improved, although it doesn't address the issue of fade since it still utilizes the stock rotor. Case in point... I've had this setup for years on my car now and it has worked flawlessly. I encountered fade once, after several HOT laps at Laguna, but that is a very brake heavy track. I plan on upgrading to vented at some point, but for everyday fun; this upgrade more than pays for itself. I sort of rate this as a stage 1 front upgrade. Stage 2 would be going to a vented rotor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsil Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I agree that the 4-piston will help, but I have had stock brakes before, and they do tend to heat up and fade quickly. In fact, I warped a pair of rotors on one Z I had with stock brakes in traffic on a hot day. But then again, I live in the SF Bay area, where you drive for a mile, crawl for 2, drive another mile, crawl for 2, etc etc....... If you're going to keep your stock wheels, you could upgrade, but not to the 4Runner calipers, they are too wide for the stock rotor. They are made to use a (I think) ~ .600" vented rotor (not sure about the number, just a guess), and the stock rotor is ~.280 (?). I have the vented rotors on mine, and they are WAY thicker. You can email SCCAMike about exact dims. The calipers you need are from 80-83 Toyota 4x4's. They use the same thickness rotor as the Z. That is the setup they refer to in the JTR book. Those will work well, definately an upgrade in actual braking force, but not much in fade resistance. You just have a 25% larger surface area to transfer heat. Better, but with a solid rotor it's not that much. Just my opinion. Hope it helps. AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 Toyota 4 Spots on Solid Rotors. Having been through the upgrade process myself, it seems fair to those thinking of doing it to put this upgrade in perspective. Certainly it works OK with a 15/16" master cylinder but then so does the stock caliper in good condition, with a stock master cyl.. If you are going to fit the bigger master cyl., then IMHO going to a 20mm vented rotor is a better option because that improves the cooling situation as well. As I previously said, it depends on use. Warp a set of solid rotors thru overheating and any savings are down the drain, been there, done that Even small cars these days have vented fronts, most of your Japanese/European 2 liter engined cars have front rotors around the same size as the Z ventilated rotor/Toy 4 spot conversion. And we Z punters drive harder, don't we Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted January 19, 2002 Share Posted January 19, 2002 I ended up going with My stock 4-lug hubs,brand new 84 300ZX vented rotors(with MikeSCCA spacer) and will be using 90-94 4-runner Calipers.This should be a good up grade?????Anyone else running this combo?I have been useing the totaly stock 280z brakes in the front to stop My Car on 160MPH Runs.I need this up grade so I can stop useing the brakes and the motor still in gear to slow down.I really need to slow the Car down out of gear,and I don't feel like useing the chute on every(or any)pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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