Looking at 71 240 with 5.0-need some input

[Guest anotherexpensivehobby]

OK, let's put it on the table...currently, I am a new HybridZ member and a 240Z wannabe owner. Been into power boats for the last 7 years since I sold my old 70 Mustang fastback.......can't stay away from cool cars anymore since I am starting to feel the squeeze of the mid-life crisis.

 

I am in need your input on a car I am considering (very seriously) about buying.

I found many articles on this and other Z car site regarding 302 swaps and wanted to see if any of you out there can suggest are areas that I should take extra time with when going over the car and it's modifications before I make the leap. The car's builder as well as it's present owner might have already shared this car with you here at HybridZ so bear with me if some of you know the car. It appears that it was a well thought out and executed project but I just want to get some input into other items that I need to save for once I own the car or things to be aware of before adding onother money drain to my hobby list.

 

Listed below is what the builder listed about the car (he and his son built it) before he sold it to the present owner. The current owner told me when I first contacted him just after buying the car that he was only buying it to have his mechanic go over the way it was built before they went on with his 302 swap into a 260Z that he is fond of. Once they went over the car and got ideas from it he would sell it....

Here is what the builder reported to me:

1971 Datsun 240 Z with a Ford 302 roller motor. Both motor and T-5 transmission are out of a Mustang Gt. Drivetrain has less than 50,000 miles on it. Features of this car include:

Motor

Ford 302 roller (300+ Hp)

Holley Street Avenger 670 cfm carb with electric choke

Ford Motorsport 1.6 roller rockers

Ford Motorsport X-303 cam (Great power up to 6500rpm)

Ford Motorsport ceramic coated shorty headers

Weiland aluminum high-rise manifold

Gt 40 heads

Transmission

Ford T-5 (rebuilt) 5 speed manual

new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing(less than 3,000 miles)

Rear End

upgraded from R 180 to R 200 w/ 354 gears to handle higher hp

Other performance upgrades

Griffin aluminum radiator

toyota 4x4 brake calipers(2 piston)

electric fan w/ adjustible thermostat control

Ford Electronic ignition

Wilwood clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder

remote oil filter

Dual exhaust with turbo mufflers

Exterior

Motorsport body kit (molded in)

Cowl induction molded into stock hood

2000 Corvette Taillights custom installed(recessed)

50w driving lights

Electric Yellow base clear paint w/ black stripes(Done in summer 2006)

Sunroof (made special for 240 Z, fits great)

Western aluminum wheels (14x7) w/ 235/60/14 BF Goodrich tires

Interior

Nissan Pulsar cloth seats(much more comfortable than the original vinyl seats)

200w Pioneer am/fm/cd player

Dash in very good condition only two 1/4" cracks on top

Gas gauge, speedometer, and voltmeter work correctly

water temperature gauge and oil pressure gauge need correct Ford to Datsun adapter

Tachometer needs to be calibrated for V8 use

factory clock works intermittently

Chassis

Floors in very good condition

frame rails have no rust or holes

custom driveshaft w/ Ford U-joints

Neuspeed front strut tower brace

This car is very quick and drives straight with no vibrations. 2400 Lbs, 300+ horse, you do the math, this is a very FUN machine to drive. The look and sound of this car will not disappoint for a head turner. This car is being sold as-is with no warranty but I assure you, my son and I have put a lot of care into building this car. Since the V8 conversion this car has been driven less than 10,000 sunny day miles and has been garage kept for the time I have owned it

Do any of you out there know this car?

Any input that you have would be greatly appreciated....The current owner drove this car 600+ miles home when he bought it so it appears that it is put together well. Attached are a couple pics of the motor and engine bay.

 

Thanks in advance for your response

 

 

 

[jt1]

Pics look nice. My suggestions would be to look at all the mods carefully, to see the quality of workmanship, esp. the wiring harness. A mucked up wiring job can be a nightmare.

 

Any Z has possible rust issues. Look at the floorboards, rockers, doglegs, battery box, and front frame rails with a microscope. Nicely done repairs are OK, but beware of bondo, fiberglass, and undercoating sprayovers.

 

Do lots of reading here. The old posts have tons of information on modified Z cars.

 

John

[Guest anotherexpensivehobby]

Thanks for the input jt1............Here are a couple more pics to show the body mods.............

[blueovalz]

The "bonded" bodywork as described in the exterior would be my main concern as all other things appear to be fine. How long have the parts (hood and body trim) been on the car? My personal experience is that bonded seams eventually start cracking sooner or later. Depending on what lies under the bonded bodywork determines if rust stains follow the cracks. It looks like a really nice job.

[Guest anotherexpensivehobby]

blueovalz,

 

The paint and such is within the last 8 months....how can I properly investigate the work to know if it was well prepared before painting? I have seen many sites that talk about 240Z typical rust areas but many of them warn about the backside of parts that you cannot see without doing a full restoration teardown.

 

I believe it was your swap info I found on the web that went over the costs of converting to a 302.....what would you say was an average value to put on a conversion from stock 6cyl to a 302 with T5 and R200 rear with average shop labor costs (friend of mine is mechanic who has shop so my cost is probably double what it should be even though "I get a deal".....actually he is reasonable just slow with his projects and mine....he won't take full price no matter what so I just have to be glad I have someone that doesn't sell me parts that I do not need)

 

What other resources would you use to prepare a list to go over when I go see the car up close? Should I assume that no matter how well the car was prepped, all those bonded effects going to be an ongoing nightmare as time goes by?

 

Thanks

[DavyZ]

blueovalz,

 

The paint and such is within the last 8 months....how can I properly investigate the work to know if it was well prepared before painting? I have seen many sites that talk about 240Z typical rust areas but many of them warn about the backside of parts that you cannot see without doing a full restoration teardown.

 

What other resources would you use to prepare a list to go over when I go see the car up close? Should I assume that no matter how well the car was prepped, all those bonded effects going to be an ongoing nightmare as time goes by?

 

Thanks

 

The rust areas can be checked with a magnet. As far as the back end is concerned, look at the areas under the hatch. Look at the seams, look for rust bubbles. Look under the car and see if the underside is rusted or even if the suspension pieces are covered with rust. Some rust on suspension parts is expected in your part of the country, but if everything is crusty, I'd be careful. Look in the wheel wells at the front of the car and look for holes in the "frame" and check for badly done repairs. If the car seems solid after you've checked everything, it may well be OK. Go over the history of the car with the owner, if you can, and get a feel for the car and where it's been. The llist you've put up above is impressive and seems to be what a Z enthusiast would do for a Z car. I'm not familiar with the car on the forum, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Perhaps someone else can pipe in. What the guys have said above is good advice.

 

Davy

[blueovalz]

8 months, with limited driving will not "bring out" the typical shock, vibration, and especially the thermal stresses that cause bonded pieces (especially glass to metal) to start cracking at the joint (unless the job was of extremely poor quality). Some times this takes up to 5 years or more to develop. It just depends on quality and use.

 

Value?...Boy, that's a tough one. I woul'd presume to be able to answer that one.

[Pop N Wood]

That's a pretty car. I really like the look of it. Should be a gas to drive.

 

I don't know that I believe the sellers's statement that he only bought the car to have his mechanic look it over. Sounds pretty hokie. How long has the current owner had it and who was the one who had it painted, the current owner or the builder. I would try to figure out a better reason why the guy is selling it and whether he may be trying to unload it after he found something wrong.

 

I tend to be a little wary of cars with fresh paint. Like blueovalz says it takes some time for problems to surface. That doesn't mean you don't buy the car, just that it is a little more difficult and risky to evaluate.

 

For rust check out http://www.zhome.com and about half way down on the left side they list the Z rust areas. Poke at the frame rails with a screw driver to see if they are solid. Check out the doglegs for bondo'd over rust, either using a magnet or by tapping on it with your finger and listening for the dull thud of a plastic mass.

 

Run your finger in the tail pipe and check for oil residue. Look in the radiator and see if you can see an oily sheen on the surface of the water. If you really want to check out the motor bring a pressure gauge and do a compression check of the motor.

 

Get underneath and look for any cracked or rotted rubber in the suspension and steering boots. Wiggle the tie rods and check for worn parts. Check the U joints and front diff mount the same way. Look for play in the steering shaft U joints.

 

I don't like the "oil and temp sensor need the datsun to ford adaptor". That means they have been driving the car without either one. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong, just not a good thing to see. Recalibrating the tach is a trivial thing.....once you get it out.... and most Z clocks only work intermittently.

 

Do a web search and see if there are certain casting numbers you can look for to verify the GT40 heads. I am not a ford guy but aren't those suppose to be good heads?

 

4x4 brakes are a nice upgrade, if they use the vented rotor. If it is the 4x4 brakes with the stock solid rotor then there are those among us who think that is not so much an upgrade as just excess weight.

 

But the big thing is you never mentioned a price. Unfortunately for the seller, what it cost to build is NOT what determines the price. Basic V8 Z's with no rust issues typically seem to sell for 5 grand or so. This one has a number of additional body mods and a clean look, so it might be worth more.

[ecp48]

I have a 78 280 which came from Virginia with the same body work. If driven in the winter, you will find rust starting behind the side skirts in the rockers. Also behind the rear skirt and in the back of the wheel wells.

 

This is in addition to the basic standard rust which occurs in your climate with winter driving. Check the rear of the front wheel wells where the seams come together. Rust will open the seams and run into the floor supports. Also look carefully at the kick-up point of the rockers where they merge with the rear wheel wells.

 

Good luck, it looks nice. My 78 is going to stay with the six and be sold, I don't want to stress it. The 76 "garage queen is getting the 5.0 (No rust).

[buZy]

I agree and Nice car. Hope not to jack the thread but what door mirrors are those?

 

EDIT: Reguards to body, are you sure you want a Z with a sunroof? You may want to search hybridz for any possible issues.

[Guest anotherexpensivehobby]

Thanks for the input ecp48 and buZy............

 

ecp48...you meantioned that your 280 had the same ground effects...did you have many areas that started to shake themselves loose leaving cracks and voids where the original metal and fiberglass met? Besides visually looking at the potential rust areas, is taking a magnet to her the best bet? Any other "tricks" or "tips" that you might suggest? Apparently, Z's have alot of areas that can be well hidden until the rust has eaten its' way through from the backside....

When you talk about driving in winter increasing my potential rust problems, are you referring to driving while salt is on the road and moisture flings up underneath the car and wheel wells or also just rain and such? I am looking for a "weekend warrier" to use when the weather looks decent...I have a daily driver and would want to keep this car looking as good as possible while still being able to use it.

 

Thanks again for any and all input....the plan is to look at it in about 10 days, so keep the ideas coming...the more the better so I am prepared when I get to kick the tires. The owner is going to allow me to go over the whole car on his lift before driving so with the proper instructions from other Z owners, I should have a decent chance at avoiding any major pitfalls..............

[MY77Z]

anotherexpensivehobby ............nice car you are about to buy i would check all the wiring in the bay engine area, what alternator he's running? i ran a 130amps alternator on the stock 280z body harness+ fusible links, my alternator went bad once, and the fusible links were on fire well, not only the fusible links, 1/4 of my engine bay was on fire... be carefull

[Guest anotherexpensivehobby]

MY77Z;

 

Here is some more info that was given me by previous owner:

"Engine from '85 Mustang GT (note that these engines are quite stout, forged pistons from the factory, one budget dragster strategy is to run junkyard 5.0's on Nitrous until they blow up!)

 

F303 Ford Motorsport cam, the listing said X303, I suspect it's actually the F303, since the X303 is quite radical and typically has clearance issues with the stock pistons

 

1977 Ford distributor and waterpump

 

Chevy one-wire alternator

 

the wiring for the V8 was spliced ito original harness. I added the fog lights and taillights( which were also spliced into original harness"

 

You suggested being careful due to what happened with your Z...based on the information that I just gave in the body of this post should I be worried? What is a Chevy one-wire alternator? What else can I ask or check on regarding the wiring; I am not a mechanic and only have limited knowledge...Any suggestions?

 

By the way your black Z looks awesome! Do you have any other pics to share?

[MY77Z]

hi,

thanks about the comment on my Z and here is my progress link where you can find alot of photos of my 500Z:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117530&page=3

 

about the V8 wiring beeing spliced to the original harness, its not a problem at all, fog lights/ tail lights are not a problem neither........well i had such problem because my 130AMP alternator was spliced to the original harness, after the small fire i had, i wired the alternator directly to the battery without passing through the original harness. so if my alternator goes bad, nothing will be harmed except for the battery. do you get the idea? and sorry but i'm not realy familiar with the chevy alternator.

about the engine beeing stout, i agree at 110%, my engine comes from my 1989 mustang, drove my mustang for several years and sprayed 150hp dry shot for 3 years without one single problem, now i have it on my Z and i'm planning on spraying it again. if 150 is alot you think, 100HP shot is cool enough and doesn't need any mods except for the timing and the spark plugs. my timing is set on 8 and stock plugs gapped at 0.32.