lbhsbZ Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 I don't know if you can get in touch with them. But maybe you should call up the guys you got the heads from. Explain to them your piston troubles and ask them what they run with those heads. Its worth a shot. He ran flat tops, but I wanted more compression than 9.5:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teekass Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Have you talked to Brodix about repairing them (or reshaping the combustion chambers)? You can ship them to Brodix, and they will give you a price quote with no obligation. Yes it might cost a bit of money to repair them, but not using them at all would cause you to have a $3,000+ spare short block collecitng dust in the corner. Also, I would hate to see you not get exactly what you want in your engine, especially since you've been so patient thus far with the machine shops, bearings, pistons, etc....kudos for the patience, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Today I did just that....called up Brodix and asked what they would charge to fix the chambers, I figured they had the fixtures and the NC programs already to do it. They said they'd have to do it by hand, for $375....I about fell out of my chair. That is remarkably cheap for that kind of labor in the performance world, especially from a big player like Brodix. Needless to say, the heads are boxed up and ready to go out. Now, another update on the motor. I ended up taking the shortblock back apart to get the crank out so I could use it on my other engine (that is also in pieces), and decided to further investigate a couple things that were bothering me about this one. As some of you may recall from the thread I started about machine shops, the work on this block was done by Speed-o-motive in West Covina CA. I paid $740 in the end for them to clean, mag, blueprint (line bore and hone, deck, cylinder bore and hone, and make sure the block was perfectly square), purchase main studs (for use during line boring and honing), and installing freeze and galley plugs. This was about twice what my local shop charged, but after seeing their shop and seeing the employees paying great attention to detail (seemingly) for the short time I was there, I figured it was worth the extra cash. I was a little disturbed when I received the block back from them with the main caps and stock bolts in a box, and the ARP studs still sealed in the ARP box. Maybe they had another set of studs that they used for all their machine work. I also noticed, after I had most of it together, that they didn't thread the oil galley holes behind the cam gear, but used freeze plugs instead....and didn't even stake them in. I took them out, and it was easy. 10psi of oil pressure would have blown them out of the block. I also paid an extra $40 for Speed-o-motive to glyptol the lifter valley and timing chain area....they gave me more than I paid for, there were drips of cured glyptol (hard as a rock) running down all the lifter bores, which I didn't notice until after the shortblock was built. The engine is back at Speed-o-motive, and while I was there, I had them measure the mains with the studs installed and torqued properly......they were out, not enough to stop the crank from turning, but enough to make me pissed off for having paid them what I did. I imagine that since the studs changed the main alignment, they also changed the bore shape. I'm not sure how they plan to fix the main line bore while keeping it square to the deck and cylinder bores, but we'll see. I'm also not sure how they plan on straightening up the cylinder bores without making then too big, but we'll see. I have enough room for another .0005" on the cylinder bores. Maybe machine shops constantly get away with work like this simply because the customers see a nice shiny crosshatch in the cylinders and a freshly cut deck and are satisfied....nobody checks or questions their work. Anyway, I'm getting to the point where I don't really care weather its perfect or not because I don't think I will ever have a perfectly machined block. I just want to put a motor in the car and have it run. I'm running out of time, money, and patience. The race season starts in less than a month, and I haven't even started on the suspension or electrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledphoot Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Sounds like some of my luck. I bounced around for years using various shops with mixed results. I finally decided to go to the local tracks and ask the guys that consistently performed well who they use... I was surprised to find that many used older shops with old equipment and old ways... They trusted the machinist and that was most important. I learned that big money shops need big money to operate and that means they have to turn out work in volume. They get sloppy sometimes and use "freshly schooled techs"... (cheaper to hire) I am very happy with my guy. He's about 50yrs old and has a place in the back of a fishing tackle shop!!.... low overhead, equipment is paid for so he is happy to do good quality work and come to the tracks each week and watch it work! He might take a month to finish a block, but it is right EVERY time. I'm sorry to hear this has been such a hassle and I know it makes you want to give up. Raise HELL until the shop satisfies you and demand compensation for time and parts!! I wouldn't reuse any bearing thats was torqued in that block because they will no longer be "round" if they have been flexed by misalignment... Make the shop PAY! Beware of Brodix. You described your problem by phone. When they get the heads they may fix them and THEN nail you with an outrageous bill knowing you'll pay it to get those heads back. I hope they don't...but beware... Sorry I'm on the wrong coast or I'd hook you up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teekass Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Today I did just that....called up Brodix and asked what they would charge to fix the chambers, I figured they had the fixtures and the NC programs already to do it. They said they'd have to do it by hand, for $375....I about fell out of my chair. That is remarkably cheap for that kind of labor in the performance world, especially from a big player like Brodix. Needless to say, the heads are boxed up and ready to go out. Sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Sounds like some of my luck. I bounced around for years using various shops with mixed results. I finally decided to go to the local tracks and ask the guys that consistently performed well who they use... I was surprised to find that many used older shops with old equipment and old ways... They trusted the machinist and that was most important. I learned that big money shops need big money to operate and that means they have to turn out work in volume. They get sloppy sometimes and use "freshly schooled techs"... (cheaper to hire) I am very happy with my guy. He's about 50yrs old and has a place in the back of a fishing tackle shop!!.... low overhead, equipment is paid for so he is happy to do good quality work and come to the tracks each week and watch it work! He might take a month to finish a block, but it is right EVERY time. I'm sorry to hear this has been such a hassle and I know it makes you want to give up. Raise HELL until the shop satisfies you and demand compensation for time and parts!! I wouldn't reuse any bearing thats was torqued in that block because they will no longer be "round" if they have been flexed by misalignment... Make the shop PAY! Beware of Brodix. You described your problem by phone. When they get the heads they may fix them and THEN nail you with an outrageous bill knowing you'll pay it to get those heads back. I hope they don't...but beware... Sorry I'm on the wrong coast or I'd hook you up! I've gotten a little closer with owner of machine shop #2. Every tuesday night is a late night at the shop, and a few guys (and myself) show up with beer and pizza and we shoot the $hit till about midnight. I've been working on him, and he actually went out and bought a couple torque plates....and I saw a block being bored with the main caps torqued the other day when I walked in at lunch time to pick up some bearings. He's coming around. I brought him another block (I have a mild street motor to build for a buddies camaro) and he said he'd have his guy stay late on tuesday night so I could watch everything as it was being done, and make sure it's done my way. Thats what I'm talking about. He actually came onto this site and found the post that grumpy made (I think its on about page 106 of this forum) about torque plates....and showed me one night when we were at the shop. At least he looks like he's trying. He'll probably read this too. As far as the Brodix repair work, thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to request a final quote before any work is done. And about luck, I have none. Even after all this, I tried to do a favor for this old navy man I know who has a '47 Willys navy jeep. It started off as a carb adjust, then turned into rebuilding his starter....then the alternator, then finding and replacing the fuel pump....at which point I noticed the bungee cord holding his brake pedal up....crawl underneith and set my head down in big puddle of brake fluid. I'm in the brake business, talked the boss into giving me a master cylinder, no problem. then the head gasket went....all within about 2 weeks. He wanted to get the radiator rodded out too. So I bring the radiator to the shop, they pressurize it and the core starts leaking. $300 later the radiator is re-cored and ready to go. I magged the head and checked with a straight edge to make sure it wasn't warped, and did the same with the block surface (straight edged, not magged) So tonight I chase all the holes in the block, installed all new headstuds, new gasket, head, and begin torquing the nuts down. The last 3 in the sequence pulled the threads out of the block. Now I get to buy another headgasket for the guy, yank the head, helicoil the block, and do it all over again. Why should I have expected any less. Buts he's a vet, so I'll do what it takes to fix his jeep. Its a pro-bono job too. Even those go crappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledphoot Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I've gotten a little closer with owner of machine shop #2. Every tuesday night is a late night at the shop, and a few guys (and myself) show up with beer and pizza and we shoot the $hit till about midnight. I've been working on him, and he actually went out and bought a couple torque plates....and I saw a block being bored with the main caps torqued the other day when I walked in at lunch time to pick up some bearings. He's coming around. I brought him another block (I have a mild street motor to build for a buddies camaro) and he said he'd have his guy stay late on tuesday night so I could watch everything as it was being done, and make sure it's done my way. Thats what I'm talking about. He actually came onto this site and found the post that grumpy made (I think its on about page 106 of this forum) about torque plates....and showed me one night when we were at the shop. At least he looks like he's trying. He'll probably read this too. As far as the Brodix repair work, thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to request a final quote before any work is done. And about luck, I have none. Even after all this, I tried to do a favor for this old navy man I know who has a '47 Willys navy jeep. It started off as a carb adjust, then turned into rebuilding his starter....then the alternator, then finding and replacing the fuel pump....at which point I noticed the bungee cord holding his brake pedal up....crawl underneith and set my head down in big puddle of brake fluid. I'm in the brake business, talked the boss into giving me a master cylinder, no problem. then the head gasket went....all within about 2 weeks. He wanted to get the radiator rodded out too. So I bring the radiator to the shop, they pressurize it and the core starts leaking. $300 later the radiator is re-cored and ready to go. I magged the head and checked with a straight edge to make sure it wasn't warped, and did the same with the block surface (straight edged, not magged) So tonight I chase all the holes in the block, installed all new headstuds, new gasket, head, and begin torquing the nuts down. The last 3 in the sequence pulled the threads out of the block. Now I get to buy another headgasket for the guy, yank the head, helicoil the block, and do it all over again. Why should I have expected any less. Buts he's a vet, so I'll do what it takes to fix his jeep. Its a pro-bono job too. Even those go crappy. Well man, lets just hope there is some version of Heaven..... I like to think acts of kindness will get us there... I've never offered to help someone or borrowed anything from someone, that it didn't end up costing me time/money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 This weekend was productive. I stuffed a set of .040 pistons into a fresh .044 over block that I had, and the shortblock went together without a hitch. I didn't feel like putting the Dart heads back together, so I bolted a brodix head down with no gasket to see if the thing would turn. The pistons just touched the head, but it turned. No problem....I spent about 2 hours grinding and CC'ing until I was pretty damn close to 66cc in all 8 chambers...and I then dropped my burret tube and broke it, so I decided I was close enough. The last measurement had be within .4cc on all 8 chambers. I stuffed the cam in....and amazingly enought, the valves don't hit the pistons either. Even at .675 lift, I've got .115 clearance between the valves and pistons...with no headgasket. So I did the final assembly of the long block, I need to find some 3/8" x 8.000 pushrods tomorrow, then we'll be done with motor. WOOHOO...finally. I figure the guideplates will test my patience, but I can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledphoot Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Progress!!! Kudos! I tore down my supposedly good running 350, that I myself HEARD run well with the intentions of doing a ring n bearing job and slap on some Vortec heads and a few basic goodies and lo and behold!!!.... I had enough end play in the crank to gouge out the rear main and one rod bearing had just begun to spin in its journal !!! So..crank is junk, one rod is junk so I said SCREW IT! and ordered a 383 stroker kit! Thats what I really wanted anyway but just couldnt justify waiting for the machine work and spendidng the extra money.... Guess I'll have to make do...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Should've said something...I've got a fresh scat 9000 crank I'd sell you for $150. Its funny how the stock cranks are softer than the thrust bearings. I was tearing down a core with 40K on it (documented) and as I was rolling it around I heard clunks....1/4 inch of crank endplay, bearings looked perfect, crank was toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledphoot Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Should've said something...I've got a fresh scat 9000 crank I'd sell you for $150. Its funny how the stock cranks are softer than the thrust bearings. I was tearing down a core with 40K on it (documented) and as I was rolling it around I heard clunks....1/4 inch of crank endplay, bearings looked perfect, crank was toast. I dont understand it myself either. Bearings are suppose to be the sacrificial part of the engine. I've never seen this on an American made engine. I've scrapped alot of Isuzus with trashed cranks due to endplay wear but this is a new issue for me with US made. BTW : fair price on the crank but I'm gonna go ahead and do a 383 forged 10-1 vortec head motor and stick a 150 shot on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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