Just Installed MSII v3 w/ EDIS

[zbigtim]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm a long time reader, first time post. I wanted to share some of my experience installing my MSII.

 

First I want to thank HybridZ and everyone posting here. I couldn't have done without. I will try to get you guys some pictures, I have a dial up connection and uploading pics is painful at best.

 

I started this project the week of Thanksgiving '06, just got the car started yesterday at lunchtime. I know there are claims it can be done in a weekend, and I'm sure it can, but not for first timers. Between working, house chores, two kids, etc. I had to find an hour here and there.

 

The car is a '76 280z bone stock, till now. I bought the MSII kit from DIY and built it myself. Installed the ECU in the stock location using the factory EFI harness. I removed the stock "dual relay" that controlled the fuel pump and installed two individual relays, one to feed the injectors (using the stock resistor packs) and one to feed the fuel pump. Using the TPS sensor out of a 240sx, I had to fabricate an adaptor plate so it would mount on the stock TB. The only other sensor that is not stock is the MAT sensor. I put it in the rubber boot just ahead of the TB. ('78 boot, I think).

 

As for the EDIS setup, I used the 36-1 wheel from an Escort and the EDIS-6 module from an Explorer and a coil pack from a Dodge Caravan. It was a good day at the u-pull-it yard. I mounted the tooth wheel on the front of the damper using four M5 bolts w/ lock washers. I did it this way because I still want to use the air conditioner. The EDIS-6 is under the engine relay box, and coil pack on the passanger side firewall.

 

When I got the MS powered up, I was able to cal the temp. sensors and the TPS, (Very easy). Using all default values except for the EDIS settings, I tried to start the engine. The engine would crank, but I had no RPM signal. After double checking all of the EDIS wiring and putting the stimulator on the MS, I could find nothing wrong. By the way the stim dumped a lot of fuel into the non-running engine. I remember reading in one of the post someone inverting the VR sensor wireing. I'm guessing the wire colors are reverse from the Escort VR and the Explorer EDIS-6. Because after inverting the VR wires the engine started immediately, and ran well, (Yeh!). I let the engine run a while, as I the engine temp was getting close to 160 deg. F, There was SMOKE! Quick get the laptop out of the car!, grap the fire extinguisher! The smoke was comming out of the defroster vents. Under closer inspection, this "smoke" was condensing on the inside of the windshield. It turned out to be a heater hose leak (whew!). After a two hour adventure on my head, under the dash, the leak was fixed and ready to try again.

 

My next move is to purchase a good timing light and a wideband O2 from DIY. My tuning need serious help.

 

Does anyone have some good VE and Spark Maps for a bone stock L28?

 

Thanks for reading...

[lammbn]

This link has a spark advace table and VE table at the bottom for a pretty stock 78' L28. it should be a good place to start and fine tune from there.

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=113860

[BRAAP]

ZbigTim,

Welcome to Hybrid-Z.

 

Congratulations on your startup.

As of the Escort VR and Exploder EDIS-6, yes, the wires are swapped, color wise or it will not work spark at all, as you found out.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures…

 

 

Here are my old “spark” and “fuel” maps during my tuning phase of my N/A L-28, 11.5:1+ compression ratio, mild cam, MS-1 V3.0, MSnS-E, EDIS-6. For all purposes, it was nice street engine with too much compression ratio for pump gas. The ignition map is a bit aggressive, (AV gas), so you might taper the max timing back to 40.

 

This should at least give you a good starting point from which to fine tune. Top map is spark, lower is fuel.

 

 

SPARK

 

 

FUEL

 

 

 

[HizAndHerz]

Paul, thanks for the maps. Could you tell what req_fuel, injectors and fuel pressure you're running?

 

I'm running a ported Maxima head with Felpro 1mm gasket for ~10.8 CR.

 

zbigyim, could you post a picture of you EDIS wheel setup? My EDIS wheel is also mounted on front of damper but it isn't as as solid as I'd like.

[zbigtim]

Thanks for the replys. I just got back from the lake, I need to resize some pics tonight and post them. Paul, your pictures and write-ups in the V3 Edis thread were awsome! HizAndHerz tonights pictures will include the wheel.

 

I did try the maps in the following link already:

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=113860

 

I believe the spark advance is just way too aggresive, but it does work.

 

Thanks again guys...

 

Tim

[BRAAP]

Paul, thanks for the maps. Could you tell what req_fuel, injectors and fuel pressure you're running?

 

I'm running a ported Maxima head with Felpro 1mm gasket for ~10.8 CR.

 

zbigyim, could you post a picture of you EDIS wheel setup? My EDIS wheel is also mounted on front of damper but it isn't as as solid as I'd like.

 

1) Req fuel, I don’t recall. I let MT calculate it with either 19 or 21 lb/hr injectors, 173 CID, 6 cylinders, 220 HP and it calculated it for me. Injectors pulsed every revolution and staggered.

 

2) Fuel injectors were OE ’85 Corvette, (either 19 or 21 lb/hr, I forget which now).

 

3) Fuel pressure was 36 PSI, vacuum disconnected.

 

 

Hope that helps.

[zbigtim]

Okay, Got my pictures...

 

Please keep in mind, I've only had this Z for about a year. There is a lot of work to be done to "clean up" under the hood. Even some of the things like the MAT sensor and the TPS were done in a temporay fashon until I have more time. The weather is nice here in St. Louis and I'm dying to get out and drive the Z. Its been a long 6 months of a Z in pieces.

 

 

 

The MSII mounted and wired in the stock location. I can still install the plastic kick panel when (if ever) i'm done tuning.

 

 

 

 

In this photo you can see the fuseable link upgrade. The fuse blocks, two, were purchased from Walmart for $10 each. Next to that you can see the EDIS-6 wireing sneeking into the relay box. On the battery are the stock power wires for the ECU. And, on the right is the Caravan Coil Pack mounted on the firewall.

 

 

 

 

Here is the routing of the plug wires. These are Accel wires from Advance Auto Parts that I cut and crimped. Not sure if I like how they layed out on the firewall. If nothing else, I definetly need some better wire clips.

 

 

 

 

Here we can see the top of the toothed wheel, the dist. hole cover, the MAT placed in the intake boot, and the 240sx TPS on its adapter plate. I do have the Throttle Body from the 240sx also, I still need to make the extension plate. This will be done at a later date because I want to "shape" the opening in the manifold opening to match the larger TB.

 

 

 

 

 

Above are two photos of the wheel. I used another L28 I have on a stand in my garage for the mock up. Using the aluminum A/C bracket from a '81 ZX, which has two threaded holes on the front. I was able to make a "hat" style bracket for the VR sensor. This photo was taken with the engine at TDC.

 

 

 

I thought this was a pretty cool shot of the dash. Not to stray from the MS forum, you can see the MS in the lower left corner. The Gauge Overlays were purchased from Speedhut. The two template designs they advertise on the website have the ammeter only. I sent a photo of the voltmeter and they custom made the overlay. The whole kit including shipping, around $100.

 

Thanks for looking...

 

Tim

[zbigtim]

Sorry,

 

Newbie mistake I guess. Lets try this again...

 

The MSII mounted and wired in the stock location. I can still install the plastic kick panel when (if ever) i'm done tuning.

 

 

In this photo you can see the fuseable link upgrade. The fuse blocks, two, were purchased from Walmart for $10 each. Next to that you can see the EDIS-6 wireing sneeking into the relay box. On the battery are the stock power wires for the ECU. And, on the right is the Caravan Coil Pack mounted on the firewall.

 

Above are two photos of the wheel. I used another L28 I have on a stand in my garage for the mock up. Using the aluminum A/C bracket from a '81 ZX, which has two threaded holes on the front. I was able to make a "hat" style bracket for the VR sensor. This photo was taken with the engine at TDC.

 

More to come..

[zbigtim]

Alright, I feel I'm getting better at this. A couple more tries, I think I'll have it!

 

Here is the routing of the plug wires. These are Accel wires from Advance Auto Parts that I cut and crimped. Not sure if I like how they layed out on the firewall. If nothing else, I definetly need some better wire clips.

 

Here we can see the top of the toothed wheel, the dist. hole cover, the MAT placed in the intake boot, and the 240sx TPS on its adapter plate. I do have the Throttle Body from the 240sx also, I still need to make the extension plate. This will be done at a later date because I want to "shape" the opening in the manifold opening to match the larger TB.

 

I thought this was a pretty cool shot of the dash. Not to stray from the MS forum, you can see the MS in the lower left corner. The Gauge Overlays were purchased from Speedhut. The two template designs they advertise on the website have the ammeter only. I sent a photo of the voltmeter and they custom made the overlay. The whole kit including shipping, around $100.

 

Again, Sorry for the mistakes...

 

Tim

[BRAAP]

........ [ATTACH]2876[/ATTACH] ......

Tim

 

I REALLY like your IAT placement. Totally insulated from engine heat so it can read ONLY what it is supposed to, the temp of the inlet air! And it plugs that hole in the boot.

 

Looking good…

[Danno74Z]

I'm just in the planning stages of my MegasquirtII system. I have an EDIS8 from a Lincoln and VR sensor has the following number F3DE6C315AB stamped on it. There are a blue and grey wires coming from the plug. Is the blue - and the grey +? Thanks in advance!

 

Danno74Z

[BRAAP]

I'm just in the planning stages of my MegasquirtII system. I have an EDIS8 from a Lincoln and VR sensor has the following number F3DE6C315AB stamped on it. There are a blue and grey wires coming from the plug. Is the blue - and the grey +? Thanks in advance!

 

Danno74Z

 

Well, as for the + and – of the VR wires, there really isn’t one. The VR sensor produces an AC voltage as the teeth go past so each wire is both negative AND positive, see pic of a VR on Rons Fluke “O” scope below…

 

 

When it comes to the VR sensors for the Ford EDIS, just remember that your EDIS will spark or it wont, simple as that. They can only be connected one way and one way only. If you are mixing and matching VR sensors and EDIS modules, it is a “try it and see” method of figuring it out. You wont hurt anything doing that. It will either spark or not spark at all. If it sparks, then the VR is wired correctly, if there are NO sparks, the first thing I would do is swap the VR sensor wires.

 

 

FWIW, on our EDIS test bench, we did discover that the Escort EDIS-4 VR sensor when used the EDIS-8 module, the blue goes to blue, gray goes to gray. That same VR with the EDIS-6 module, blue goes to gray and gray goes to blue..

 

Here is some good EDIS meat …

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=14920

 

 

 

Hope that helps,

Paul

 

[MaTTSuN]

did the escort wheel have those hole's to mount? im thinking of doing the same thing, but im thinking of going for the taurus wheel since i think some holes on it line up with the threaded holes in the damper.... very nice work tho

did u tap the Damper to mount it?

i got like 4 dampers to test run on haha cant wait to get to the point your at

[zbigtim]

did the escort wheel have those hole's to mount? im thinking of doing the same thing, but im thinking of going for the taurus wheel since i think some holes on it line up with the threaded holes in the damper.... very nice work tho

did u tap the Damper to mount it?

i got like 4 dampers to test run on haha cant wait to get to the point your at

 

I drilled and tapped the damper, Drilled the four holes in the escort wheel. It seems like I read in one of the threads that the taurus, not sure what years, would bolt on directly. I got the escort wheel thinking I would machine the back of the damper and press fit it. But when I got the wheel and started looking at things, I just didn't think there was enough room.

 

If you can see in the wheel pictures there are four marks where the screws are. That was the first thing I did. I used a wooden dowel that fit the inside bore of the damper. Clamped the dowel in the drill vise. Placed the damper on the dowel. Then I clamped the wheel on top of the damper with two very small 'c' clamps. I chucked a small drill bit in the drill and ran the bit down next to the teeth, and turned the wheel on the dowel. This way I could check for wheel center. Once the wheel was centered I drilled the four holes with the drill fixed in one position. When I was ready to drill the next hole, I simply turned the damper on the dowel and drilled the next hole.

 

The holes did go all the way through in to the 'v' groove for the A/C belt. So I used a small round file to debur. Make sure you use screw short enough not to penetrate the 'v' groove.

 

Tim

[HizAndHerz]

When I first put my EDIS wheel on, I used the thin Taurus 3.0L wheel mounted to the inner hub of the damper using standoffs like Nish did in this thread http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117845. For me, it was okay for testing but I worried about throwing the balance of the damper way off.

 

I like Tim's setup alot better, very nice work. And thanks for your explanation of how you centered the wheel. I am a little concerned about how little of the bolt threads are screwed into the pulley, though. If my attempts to mount the thin wheel on the back side of the damper fall through, I may try mounting the Escort thick wheel on the front like you did.

[zbigtim]

I understand your concern, for what its worth, the holes ended up deep in the v-groove, I don't think the belt even rides that low in the 'v'.

 

The screws are a 5mm X 16mm and using a lock washer the screw came almost to the v groove. If I didn't have the lock washer, the screw would go thru to the v groove.

[christoc]

Dittmer eh? Want to help out on another one? I'm up in Creve Couer, getting ready to start wiring this week (I hope). I just ordered a fuel cell and fuel lines today, so I need to get that all plumbed up this week, then I'll start on the wiring.

[zbigtim]

Hey!,

 

It's nice to here from someone "in the neighborhood". I'd love to help out, but as you can see in my first post in this thread, it took me 6 months to get my own done! But by all means if you want to hook up sometime and trade ideas and whatnot. I plan to be at the hooters and/or bommerito show. Also meeting up with another Z buddy that lives in O'fallon MO at the bommerito.

 

PM me if you want to trade phone #'s...

 

Tim

[zbigtim]

Wanted to share my MSII settings. Again my engine setup is stock and has a gazillion miles (technical term) on it. It even burns and leaks a little oil. I have not checked with a timing light or a wide band O2 sensor yet. That stuff is coming! But by the 'seat of the pants' this seems to be a good starting point.

 

Thanks to Paul Rauschman; I took his settings, except for required fuel, and cut back on the timing a bit, and bumped the VE up by 2.5% across the board. I made these changes because of detonation.

 

Based on 2800cc, 180 cc/min, 6cyl.

 

 

 

Tim