Help 5.0 motor problems

[24 oz]

I've been trying to get my motor running right for months and don't know what to do. At first my cam was installed in the wrong spot so I degreed it in. Both the intake and exhaust open 3 or 4 degrees late, so I figured it was just some human error, and if not it wouldn't hurt all that much. The motor has no power at all. It's slower than a geo metro, maybe not that slow but you get my point. I have a rebuilt 5.0 its the roller block. Trick flow heads and cam, performer RPM intake, edelbrock carb, MSD 6AL, summit HEI Distributor, and stock lower end. We did a compression on a few of the cylinders and they were all in between 180 and 190 psi. I had the timing at about 15 degrees. Anyone have any opinions? The cam is for the HO firing order. Could the lifters possibly need to be replaced? When my dad and I were degreeing in the cam the dial indicator would move up about a thousandth of an inch than back down and up again then back down again then the lifter would start to rise. This confused us but we sort of ignored it, could something be wrong with the cam? Hopefully all of this makes sense.

 

Brad

[fordsunzx]

first i would ck some basics; intake and exh restriction, spark timing and

fuel quality. then [ im not trying to be a ass but anyone can miss something] is the cam for a roller? what kind of set up is the distrubutor timing advance? is the carb jetted right? does the intake have egr blocked off? are the secondaries on the carb working?

 

if these all ck out i would suspect the cam lifter.

[24 oz]

There aren't any intake restrictions I would be amazed if there were any exhaust restrictions because of the noise level it makes but I will double check that. The fuel is 91 octane and is only a couple months old. The cam is suppose to be for a roller and the cam card has the timing order and it says the HO firing order and states that it's an HO cam. The carb is brand new and the secondaries work I am assuming the carb is jetted right but how would I tell? I need to check on a few of the other things but all of emm check out. What is the possibility of them sending me the wrong cam or grinding this one wrong? and do all 302's have either the HO firing order or the non HO firing order. There isn't a third one that would come from a a truck or something is there?

 

Brad

[Spraguepsycho1]

I would guess ignition timing as a possible problem. You might want to try dropping it to somewhere between 8-12 degrees initial advance with the vaccume advance disconnected and plugged. Then hook it back up and test drive it again. Most 5.0/302's like to top out around 21-23 degrees total advance if I remember right, starting at 15 degrees you might be jumping past that. I'm not familiar with tuning the edelbrock carbs, but on Holly's with the vaccume secondaries, timing the secondaries to open at the right time is just as critical in getting any kind of performance as proper jetting is, and powervalves usually need to be changed to one that opens at the right vaccume level. On a vaccume secondary Holly if you can hear them open and see black smoke in the rear view mirrors, you're way off on the tuning. I'm assuming you adjusted the valves so they have the recommended lash when they are closed, not sure why the valves would start to open and close slightly before they were supposed to start opening, what brand of camshaft did you use?

[24 oz]

Its a Trick Flow stage 1 cam and when I had the timing at about 10 degrees when you hit the gas it would backfire through the carb.

[alsil]

From my experience, don't go past 10 degrees on timing. the engine will run hot and won't have much power. I set mine between 6-8 degrees. Past 10 it runs rough.

Edelbrocks are easy to tune - check out the book that came with it, or you can download it from the web. It spells it out for you. If you're not familiar with carb tuning, I would start maybe 1 step above baseline (what it came with) and go from there. From what you have on the motor, sounds like you're running lean. I hope you haven't damaged anything, because if you got some pops while trying to accelerate it could have broken something.

[Adam]

Which cam do you have, the one for the ho or for the later models. Also is it a roller cam or non roller.

[24 oz]

I got it figured out and it was the part my error and the rest was the damn Pete Jackson Gear drive. Don't buy one. When you line the dots up on the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket the cam is way out. I got a double roller and now I just need to tune it. What is a good temperature to run the motor at? I was told 220 but that seems sort of high. I drove it around a little bit today and the temp ranged from 180 to 200 depending on how much gas I gave it. The car doesn't have all that much low end and it likes to rev which makes me think that it's running lean. I've only gone about 5 miles since I've got it running so I know I haven't hurt anything yet,if it is lean. I've been messing with the timing a little I tried 8 degrees and 12 degrees. The motor liked 12 degrees better but im gonna mess with it some more. Does anybody know what kind of total timing I should have? Thanks for the help

Brad

[Adam]

I got it figured out and it was the part my error and the rest was the damn Pete Jackson Gear drive. Don't buy one. When you line the dots up on the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket the cam is way out. I got a double roller and now I just need to tune it. What is a good temperature to run the motor at? I was told 220 but that seems sort of high. I drove it around a little bit today and the temp ranged from 180 to 200 depending on how much gas I gave it. The car doesn't have all that much low end and it likes to rev which makes me think that it's running lean. I've only gone about 5 miles since I've got it running so I know I haven't hurt anything yet,if it is lean. I've been messing with the timing a little I tried 8 degrees and 12 degrees. The motor liked 12 degrees better but im gonna mess with it some more. Does anybody know what kind of total timing I should have? Thanks for the help

Brad

The timing should be between 10 to 12 btdc for a stock engine, but it would help a lot to know if it is fuel injection or carb. Loss of low end torque can and usually is you timing being to far advanced, this can also make you car run hotter. Also your total advance after 3000rpms should not exceed 36 degees, anymore will result in problems.

As to therm. for a carb engine like mine I run a 160, but for a fuel injection set up run a 180 or 190 therm.

[24 oz]

It's carburated.

[Adam]

Set it at 12 btdc idling about 650 to 700rpms, and install the 160 thermo. You may also want to get-barrow an adjustable timing light and make shure that the advance on the timing does not go to far not past 36.

[24 oz]

Right now I have a 195 thermostat, thats what is stock for my motor. I have an adjustable timing light I'm just not sure what to set the total to. Right now I think its around 33 or 34. I am going to recheck it though and mess with is and see what it likes the best.

[74_5.0L_Z]

I run mine at 16 initial and 36 total. I have aluminum heads so I can get away with more timing on 93 octane pump gas. When I had the stock iron heads, I ran 14 initial and 34 total.

 

Does you distributor have vacuum advance?

[blueovalz]

Thank you. People look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them this:

 

I run roughly 19 initial and just over 40 (mechanical advance) total on my 289. I've checkad TDC with a piston stop, as well as visually, with a viscous harmonic balancer (so it is not "slipped"), and these numbers are correct and actual. If I were to try and run at "factory" specs, I'd barely get down the street. Oddest thing in that this situation only happened one other time, and it was on a 302.

[74_5.0L_Z]

Two years ago we dynoed my buddy's 289 NHRA superstock engine. In his class SSMA he has to run the factory heads and compression (9.0:1). He can however run a huge cam (0.790" lift and 102 degree LCA). On the dyno with race gas we found that 39 degree total was best for our set-up.

 

A street 302/289 would probably also benefit from more than 36 total. Un fortunately, the pump gas will cause the engine to ping/detonate beyond 36 degrees total.

[Adam]

The more advanced the timing the more hp in higher rpms and the less in lower rpms. If you advance it to far it will hurt your low end tourque and cause pinging as stated above.

[24 oz]

I haven't had time to mess with the car yet but I did start it and I noticed that 2 of the wires that hook up to the distributor were arching so I need to figure that out before I do anything else. I have aluminum heads but I live in california and only have 91 gas. I have vacumn advance but right now it is closed. I don't know how to adjust it and was going to have someone do it for me but if someone can explain it to me I will do it.

[74_5.0L_Z]

The vacuum advance will wake up the engine at low rpms. Generally you just run a vacuum hose from the distributor to the timed spark advance port on the front of the carburetor.