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Finding LT1 TDC with heads on and damper off?


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Ive just built a nice Crank trigger'ed LT1 damper and, looking to install it, find that I should have made some reference marks before removal. There are no timing marks on this motor. And it gets worse-It has a keyless damper hub and from the looks of the balancing holes on the damper, It's important for balancing that it be installed at the correct index.

 

It looks as if the angle is wrong to stick something in a spark plug hole and feel for TDC as the engine is rotated.

 

Barring any suggestions for a simpler method, (and they would be welcomed) Here's what I plan to do:

 

I know that this damper is installed with its pointed spoke at exactly 12:00 at #1 TDC.

Damperhub1.JPG

The crank snout has a keyway in it, although not used, it is in line with the timing sprocket's keyway. On the back of the damper there is a mark where the timing sprocket's keyway meets the rear of the damper.

Damperhub2.JPG

 

You can see the little square mark at about 10:00 in the pic above.

I plan to make a jig to accurately measure the angle between the pointed spoke's center and the key mark's center. I will install a degree wheel zero'ed vertically, then make sure the engine is on #1 compresion stroke and rotate the crank until the keyway matches the measured angle from vertical. Now if the damper is installed with the pointed spoke vertical it should be correct. What fun it will be to get this alignment correct!

 

Like I said, I hope someone has a better idea - And you can believe that there will be timing pointers made as soon as this situation is fixed.

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you could pull #1 plug and check piston.

 

I tried that but couldn't get a good angle through the plug hole to feel the piston - used a long thin woooden q-tip stick. Maybe that would work with the header off?

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sum-900189_w.jpg

SUM-900189

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D900189&N=700+318773+115&autoview=sku

 

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=115+400304

 

(1)

buy the piston stop and timing tape

(2)

remove all spark plugs and disconnect the battery if you have not done so yet

(3)

screw the piston stop into cylinder # 1 and adjust the depth so the piston in the cylinder can be placed almost to the top of its stroke before it touches the piston stop

(4)

rotate the engine by hand untill the piston touches the stop, use a fine tip scribe and some machinist blue on the crank snout and mark the 12 oclock point on the crank snout, now rotate the engine in the reverse dirrection and do the same thing again, the marks will be apart about 1/2"-1/4" exactly centered between the marks is TOP DEAD CENTER FOR CYLINDER #1

mark that on the crank, snout , move that so the true TDC mark is at 12 o-clock,now mark it on the damper so that the timing tab indicator on the engines timing cover or where ever it is on your engine shows that TDC on the damper and TDC on the timing tab MATCH, once thats done seat and lock the damper in place without moving the relative relationship between them,(if your sure the arrow points at 12 oclock put it there but be darn sure the true TDC and indicator on the engine and dampers outer surface agree with reality)) once the dampers on, clean with acetone and install the correct timing tape for the damper dia. and get a prick punch and make a mark on the crank snouts front edge and damper inner edge,contact point, so the punch hits the junction between the two, and then drill a 1/8" deep 1/32" hole at the junction so youll always in the future have a mark to align it exactly correct with

 

below is the normal way for a sbc with a damper thats already correcly marked and indexed and your just verifying tdc

 

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyTDC.html

 

 

BTW old post on degreeing in a cam

 

youll need a few basic tools and a good understanding of what your doing, but its certainly not all that difficult.

 

I was asked where to get a CHEAP degree wheel

 

heres one you can print out and save for engine builds on the engine stand

(put curser on an click)

 

http://savetheledges.org/test/AVS/images/tech/CrankDegreeWheel.png

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MOR%2D62191&N=700+303547+115&autoview=sku

 

you could buy these from summit racing or similar parts from jegs

 

http://www.summitracing.com/

 

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/topcategory_10001_10002_-1

 

MOR-62191 $44 (wheel)

 

MOR-61755 $47 (SBC)

MOR-61756 $47.(BBC)crank sockets

 

SUM-900188 $17 (piston stop, head off)

SUM-900189 $6.95(piston stop, head on)

 

TFS-90000 $94.95 (degree kit)

 

youll also want two flat tappet solid lifters and two weak check springs

 

 

instructions

 

http://www.2quicknovas.com/happyTDC.html

 

http://www.iskycams.com/camshaft.html

 

http://www.thedirtforum.com/degree.htm

 

http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/camdegree.htm

 

http://www.hotrodder.com/kwkride/degree.html

 

http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/803.pdf

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I need to get the damper spot-on for an accurate ignition reference and also to get the balancing index correct. Looking at the damper balancing holes this appears to be an externally balanced engine. I already have it on #1's compression stroke, and am sure about the reference mark.

 

Actually , I do have a piston stop and will use that. (Slaps forehead and says,"Doh!")

 

Thanks Grumpy for setting me on the obvious path.

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Speeder,

 

Just curious, why are you going through all this work to put a degree damper on a LT1 engine? Are you no longer using the Optispark ignition? One would have to go through this exercise if they were putting in a new cam in the LT1.

 

Danno74Z

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See my edit above for the reason I had to go through this excercise.

 

Just want to add: That degree wheel for printout that Grumpy gave the link for was very useful - My aluminum degree wheel is too big to fit on the engine in - car so I just scaled the online wheel to the right size and printed out, glued to poster board, and cut out.

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