The official Ignition Thread

[streeteg]

Well, this stems off of a Z U L8r Thread about racing... however it deserves its own thread title for the sake of detail and searchability so here goes.....

 

Please list you power level and ignition modifications for your RB powered Z...cost, degree of difficulty etc

 

A few to mention are the LS1 Coils and the Buick GN coil and Ignitor....

 

Wiring diagrams for S1 and S2 Rb motors appreciated....and any other information would be awesome..

 

-E

[Careless]

if someone can draw the diagrams by hand and send them to me, I can digitize them with style

[streeteg]

im about to draw myself...see what you can do in that department....

 

...but seriously in for diagrams....

[Z U L8R]

Set up

 

1986 Buick Regal Grand National 3.8 turbo Ignition coil, MSD 8.5mm Ignition Cable Set, NGK BKR7E @ .028 gap

 

Materials

 

Sheet Metal Screws

Something to space the coil from the chassis (you can stack nuts, or make a hollow cylendrical thingy for looks)

90 degree Insulated Female Spade Terminals

Some wire, i can't spell SODDER wtf (soldier?) Wire strippers/crimpers, something to screw in your sheet metal screws with

Zip ties + electrical tape

*And of course an ignition cable set aka spark plug wires. most parts stores have the 8.5 msd wire sets. yes you only need 6 wires, but depending on where you have room to mount your coil....the v8 msd wire set has longer wires than the v6 does. and i think it's a couple dollar difference. just thought i'd mention that as well.

 

Procedure

 

all rb firing order is the same 1-5-3-6-2-4, therefore 1 and 6 are up at the same time, 2 and 5, 3 and 4.

 

if you look at the top of the coil starting from top left is 1 and going to the top middle 2, top right 3, bottom right 4, bottom middle 5, bottom left 6. so going clockwise it goes 1,2,3,4,5,6. now flip it over vertically? 1 & 6 on the left, 2 & 5 in the middle, 3 & 4 on the right.

 

now staring you in the face are 6 male spade terminals, a row of 3 at the top, and a row of 3 at the bottom.

 

On the top row of 3 you're going to give each terminal 12volt ignition power via that thick white wire on the 2 pin grey plug that goes to the ignition coil subharness. Best way is to run 1 wire then tap 2 other leads off of that to the other 2 spade terminals.

 

On the bottom row of 3 you're gonna start from the left with cylinder's 1 and 6. find your ignitor (series 1), isolate your cylinders 1 and 6 ignition signal wire (you may need to extend them) and connect 1 and 6 on the bottom left, then 2 and 5 for the bottom middle, and 3 and 4 for the bottom right.

Side note

 

When i converted my friend's series 2 to this set up, I wired in an ignitor from a z32, wired the pigtails into his harness, then continued the way i have instructed above. i do not know if series 2 guy's can run this set up without wiring in an ignitor or not because i've never tried. the difference between series 1 and series 2 is that the series 1 has an external ignitor and the series 2's ignitors are built into each coil therefore when you remove the coils you do not have an ignitor aka power transistor unit. it might just work without one for the series 2 guys, i'm just not sure as i myself have never tried it without a PTU.

 

If you wanna run an autometer tach, buy MSD part # 8918 ~$30 Tach Signal Pick up, clip it to the thick white ignition 12volt supply wire, finish wiring it all in via the autometer/msd instructions and bada bing, your tach works now too =]

 

hope this helped

Dave =]

[streeteg]

any detail on wiring in an ignitor? (I have an S2)

 

Also anyone with the lsx coils?

[Z U L8R]

never done lsx coils, but basically they should have 3 wires (all nissan coils i've seen have 3 wires) one is ignition 12volt, indicated by a + , one is ground, indicated by a -, the other is the ground signal from the ecu/ignitor (in nissan coils) marked E. if the lsx coils have 3 wires once you identify eachs purpose the same rule applies. from experience, it's pretty easy to short out a coil if you've been drinking and hook the wires up incorrectly so be mindful lol.

 

SERIES 2 GUYS, how to wire in a z32 ignitor

 

basically the ignitor's got 7 pins on one side and 6 on the other, usually from top to bottom the order of the wires are 153624 with a G in the middle. G is ground so ground that to the chassis or motor, whichever's easier for u. just to be safe, since it's your first time, google an ecu pinout of your rb. now look at your ecu plug. write down your wire colors for the ignition signal for each cylinder. then look at your coil pack subharness big grey plug and the wires going to it from the engine harness should be the same as the colors you wrote down from the ecu plug. now you've isolated the ignition signal wires for each cylinder. now you have to decide which harness you want to cut the plug off, your main wiring harness or your coil pack subharness. i'd go with the coil pack subharness since you're not going to use them anymore and if you do your ignition system is plug n play. if you don't wanna trace or write down the colors from the ecu you can also look at the wire color on each coil marked E for each cylinder and trace those back to the grey plug at the ignition coil subharness. your choice.

 

now that you've found each cylinder signal wire you can wire it into your ignitor plug. it really doesn't matter what order you put them in, as long as coming out of the ignitor and then going to your coil pack is the same corresponding cylinder however i like to keep it factory so i don't have to remember stuff so from the top down 153624. and again the middle black wire marked G is ground. i know your ignitor probably says 123 G 456 but that's not the corresponding cylinder so make sure you're using the correct wire for the correct cylinder, 1 should be 1, 2 should be 5, 3 = 3, g = ground 4 = 6, 5 = 2, 6 =4 (now i probably confused most of you) that's why i say just identify and double check them how i've explained above so you don't make any mistakes. if you want get a piece of masking tape and a sharpie and tag each wire once you've identified it so you don't forget =]

 

so now you've wired in your ignitor and now you're ready to send each cylinder's ignition signal to the correct tab on the coil pack.

 

Streeteg: if you understand this, i think you should try to see if series 2 needs or doesn't need an ignitor, worst case scenario is the coil back feeds power to the ecu which is giving the coil signal a ground signal and you pop your ignition circuits in your ECU and you never have spark >_< lol i don't think that'll happen but it's a risk. since i believe lsx coils are basically coil on plug, it'd be just like the nissan coil packs (just stronger) as far as wiring it in. however the question is does an lsx coil pack have a built in ignitor like the series 2 rb25's do or do they have a separate ignition control module and/or an ICM built into the lsx ecu. that's the only question there. if you need an ignitor, than just wire one in line like i've explained above.

 

it's pretty late here, i've already fixed an oil pan on an sr20 tonight and got that thing to pump oil on a friend's car, then i travel across town to wire in a z32 maf for another friend's rb20, then my mother calls me and tells me her 2001 camry won't start or even turn over, so it's 11:47pm, her batteries on the charger so maybe she can get 1 start and drive to autozone while i'm at work, and i've already put in my 10 hour day at my shop LOL so feel my EMO exhaustion muwhahaaha. but seriously if something doesn't make sense to you, i'd rather you ask me than mess your car up, so send me a pm or post up your question or whatever.

 

thx again and enjoy

Dave =]

[Booztd 3]

FWIW My RB26 made just shy of 700rwhp on ALL STOCK ignition.......I do not see many dyno charts on that level, but I wouldnt recommend wasting any time/money if you dont plan to go above that level. I cannot comment on the RB25's capability however.

[Evan Purple240zt]

Booztd 3. The reason that I am interested in upgrading my ignition is not due to inadequate spark. I am more concerned about reliability.

 

Lsx coils do have ignitor built in from what i remember.

 

Evan

[Careless]

never done lsx coils, but basically they should have 3 wires (all nissan coils i've seen have 3 wires) one is ignition 12volt, indicated by a + , one is ground, indicated by a -, the other is the ground signal from the ecu/ignitor (in nissan coils) marked E.

 

Far as I remember reading on this forum, LSx coils have 4 wires, 2 are used as signal/sense wires.

 

You've contributed a lot of information to this thread, many thanks

[Careless]

FWIW My RB26 made just shy of 700rwhp on ALL STOCK ignition.......I do not see many dyno charts on that level, but I wouldnt recommend wasting any time/money if you dont plan to go above that level. I cannot comment on the RB25's capability however.

 

You must have a good set, as from what I've read on numerous RB boards, people are trying weird things like using windsheild sealant and nail polish to close up the weathered cracks on their coil boots and all other types of evil-scientist type crap.

 

This all stems from people not wanting to dish out on those blue split-fire coils. Heck, if i were to dish out on those, I would go with MSD Reds for LSx engines. They're the same price, higher voltage- hotter spark, and you get two free replacements

 

have to say though, you've been getting some impressive numeros with your setup.

[Booztd 3]

 

have to say though, you've been getting some impressive numeros with your setup.

 

thank you sir, I hope to get some 10 second passes this weekend!

 

FWIW on the Z32 igniter swap, I've been there done that, here's the write-up I posted on NICO

 

Guys

 

I was suspecting that my igniter had a problem when I started developing a random miss on cylinder 4. I would get the miss sporadically and most of the time once the miss started' date=' I could shut the car off, turn it back on and it would be gone. In adddition to that, the 6pin connector on my rb26 igniter was broken off, so the connection was a little 'loose'. I noticed when I played around with that connection my miss would sometimes go away.

 

I saw Carl H's post regarding swapping the J30 igniter so I knew it could be done, however he has mainly text documentation. I went through this process and took good thorough pictures with hopes of assisting others.

 

Through the years of working on Z32's I've acquired junk wiring harness and lots of spare parts. It just so happened that I had a good Z32 igniter (we call it a PTU) sitting around, as well as an old harness. I clipped the pigtails so I got good conditioned harnesses. Here is the assembly we'll be swapping in.

 

[img']http://www.booztd3.com/Pictures/Tech/Z32_Igniter_Swap/Igniter_Swap_01.JPG[/img]

 

Since I wanted to ease installation, I chose to use the old clips, as it would be more simple to transfer the wires 1 by 1 over to the new harness instead of depinning them all on the rb harness and risk mixing them up (i know its not rocket science but im all about logistics!)

 

Start by removing the yellow retainer clip

 

 

Now that the clip is removed, you can begin de-pinning it. I used a pic tool (as shown below) to release the clips and then pull the wire out the backside

 

 

 

It should take literally 1 mintue to remove these safely

 

 

Now do the same to the other harness

 

 

Here we have both 6 and 7 pin harness clips and the Z32 igniter

 

 

Here is the schematic for the Z32 igniter.

 

 

Here is the stock RB configuration. Notice the 7 pin on the right, 6 pin on the left. The orientation is switched on the Z32 igniter. The 6 pin will be on the right and the 7 pin will be on the left.

 

 

Here's a good picture of what I just previously referenced

 

 

I started to work with the right side first, transitioning the wires from the 7-pin connector, to the new 6-pin connector. The first wire I removed was the ground. You can note which wire is ground by looking on the igniter itsself. It will be labeled "E". Notice coil wires 1 and 2 have already been moved from the 7pin to the 6pin connector

 

 

Pictured below the new 6pin connector is now complete. You should have one wire left over that is black, which is the ground wire. The old connector is on top.

 

 

Next you will need to extend that black ground wire to reach over to the other side of the igniter. About 6" will do. I soldered and shrink wrapped the connection

 

 

 

The first thing you can do now is take that ground wire and stick it in the new 7pin connector. It will go in the exact middle like below

 

 

Now we will begin depinning the old 6pin connector and transfering wires over to the new 7pin connector. Here is the stock rb configuration

 

 

In this next picture I have moved coil #1 wire over to the new harness. Do this with the remaining 5 coil wires. They stay in the same order (with the ground being the 4th from the left)

 

 

Here we have the completed configuration.

 

 

I am happy to report the car fired right up, but I havent yet tested to see if my miss is gone. The car will need to warm up and I'll need to take it for a spin.

 

Hope this helps some guys out, happy RB'ing!

[Racinjitter]

I am going to switch over to lsx coils this winter. I already have my set of 8 from a 6.0L aluminum block ls2(?). BTW FREEBIES FTMFW! Also they have ingiters built in like the series 2 rb25's.

 

Oh and Andy congrats on the ROTM on Nico and 300zxclub!

[Booztd 3]

 

Oh and Andy congrats on the ROTM on Nico and 300zxclub!

 

 

 

Sankyou!

[Z U L8R]

lol well i broke my second rb20 tranny today rolling into third gear. soon as 20psi hit...my tranny goes "gldafdsgkagdsl;jflkdsfjsfja;dakf;df" those exact words lol. time for an upgrade.

 

Andy i'm comin for that azz , all i'll say is it's got a GT4082r compressor housing on it =P

[Booztd 3]

Andy i'm comin for that azz , all i'll say is it's got a GT4082r compressor housing on it =P

 

Bring it sir

[Z U L8R]

lol