L28 NA with F54+P90 and original engine...?

[Blobber]

I bought engine, which was originally from 280zx. Engine is with F54 block and P90 head. How is this possible? I think the 280zx was a euro-version 280zx. Also fellow z-devotee has found out that his newer 280zx na has P90 and older has p79. Has there been different kind of engines in europe than in states? I don't think that Datsun would have made two different head with same label.

[z-ya]

It depends on what pistons are in it. If they are dished, it is a turbo motor. If they are flat, and have "P79" stamped in them, then somewhere along the line the head was swapped. The P79 head is identical to the P90, except that it has round exhaust ports with liners.

[COZY Z COLE]

http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/engine.html

 

Click on cylinder heads on that page...

 

 

 

LARRY

[Blobber]

Cozy: That page just tells me that P90 was in the turbo engine. But now I euro N/A engine, which has P90 head. Also fellow z-devotee has has N/A engine with P90 head.

[COZY Z COLE]

Send your question to this member, frank280zx ....http://forums.hybridz.org/member.php?u=8535

 

 

 

 

LARRY

[Gareth]

My 280ZX engine (at least that's what the seller stated), on the other hand, is a N42/N42 combo. I've also seen a 79 (I think) ZX 2+2 with the N42 engine. It may be that Nissan used leftover parts for the European market, resulting in many mix-and-match combinations, as evidenced here. It's a pity that no-one has thoroughly documented the European Datsuns...

[Blobber]

I won't disaassemble the whole engine yet, so full confirmation I cannot give. But looking from spark plug holes it looks like that pistons are flat tops, so looks like that what Gareth said is true. Because I still believe that the engine is original...

[HS30-H]

It may be that Nissan used leftover parts for the European market, resulting in many mix-and-match combinations, as evidenced here.

 

 

Gareth,

If anybody tells you that Nissan used "leftover parts" for the European market, then I'd advise you to take what they say with a huge pinch of salt.

 

It's actually far more likely that they don't have the faintest clue what they are talking about, and have simply inherited the lack of understanding of others who also did not take the time to understand what they were looking at.

 

The main barrier to gettting near to the truth of the European market cars is that most of the English-language data for these Japanese cars is biased towards the major export sales market - namely North America.

 

Alan T.

[Zraced...]

I agree why would they use leftover parts for Europe? Is the USA far superior that we would get the good parts? Thats dumb logic.

 

Gareth,

If anybody tells you that Nissan used "leftover parts" for the European market, then I'd advise you to take what they say with a huge pinch of salt.

 

It's actually far more likely that they don't have the faintest clue what they are talking about, and have simply inherited the lack of understanding of others who also did not take the time to understand what they were looking at.

 

The main barrier to gettting near to the truth of the European market cars is that most of the English-language data for these Japanese cars is biased towards the major export sales market - namely North America.

 

Alan T.

[Blobber]

I wouldn't think that USA is far more superior than europe, but I think that main conseration was on USA markets and that's why there are different engine setup on europe. Datsun saved money after the turbo-model came by making one engine with different pistons depending if engine was N/A or turbo.

[HS30-H]

I wouldn't think that USA is far more superior than europe, but I think that main conseration was on USA markets and that's why there are different engine setup on europe. Datsun saved money after the turbo-model came by making one engine with different pistons depending if engine was N/A or turbo.

 

You have a really strange perception about this. If you think that Nissan ( 'Datsun' wasn't making anything during the period we are discussing ) were thinking only of the USA market, or that the needs of the USA market were affecting / trumping all other markets, then you have been listening to the wrong people. The situation was a lot more complicated than that. What leads you to believe that Nissan's plans for the L28 engine in the North American market affected the L28 in the European market?

 

Remember that the L-series engine was used in a lot more vehicles / applications domestically than it was for export markets. Satisfying the domestic market has always been important for Japanese manufacturers, and if you don't understand what Nissan was doing in their own backyard - or if you discount it completely - then you'll never get anywhere close to understanding the export market cars and parts.

 

This talk of "left over" parts has always made me laugh. Like Nissan had some kind of mountain of assorted bits and pieces "left over" ( from what? ) and somebody needed to come up with a plan to make use of them........ Absurd.

[Gareth]

Thanks for these remarks Alan, I think they cleared up my point of view on the European market... But have you got any specific data about the European L-gata engines? As far as I know, the L-series was available in the Old Continent in many different models throughout the 70s and 80s, which include:

 

- C10 and C110 Skyline, exported to Europe in LHD form in small numbers,

- C31 and C32 Laurel with the "B" pillar and solid axle rear suspension,

- 510 Bluebird,

- 710 Violet,

- S30 240Z and 260Z,

- S130 280ZX,

- 160 Patrol,

- anything else?

 

What kind of lock/head casting numbers did these cars use? I think that European HybridZ users could benefit a lot from any kind of information about the Euro L-gata, since, as you already noted, most sources written in English are dedicated to the lucrative American market...

[HS30-H]

Gareth,

I'm afraid you'll have to wait at least until I am back home in London for that. At the moment I'm in Japan for the New Year holidays.

 

Regards,

Alan T.

[Gareth]

I'd be thankful for ANY kind of info about the Euro engines, and I guess I'm not the only one here who thinks this way. Thanks for the input!

[stagefumer11]

Thanks for these remarks Alan, I think they cleared up my point of view on the European market... But have you got any specific data about the European L-gata engines? As far as I know, the L-series was available in the Old Continent in many different models throughout the 70s and 80s, which include:

 

- C10 and C110 Skyline, exported to Europe in LHD form in small numbers,

- C31 and C32 Laurel with the "B" pillar and solid axle rear suspension,

- 510 Bluebird,

- 710 Violet,

- S30 240Z and 260Z,

- S130 280ZX,

- 160 Patrol,

- anything else?

 

What kind of lock/head casting numbers did these cars use? I think that European HybridZ users could benefit a lot from any kind of information about the Euro L-gata, since, as you already noted, most sources written in English are dedicated to the lucrative American market...

 

_ HR30 skyline - Limited (l20a) (l20et)

[Gareth]

The HR30 Skyline wasn't available in Europe...

[Blobber]

You have a really strange perception about this. If you think that Nissan ( 'Datsun' wasn't making anything during the period we are discussing ) were thinking only of the USA market, or that the needs of the USA market were affecting / trumping all other markets, then you have been listening to the wrong people. The situation was a lot more complicated than that. What leads you to believe that Nissan's plans for the L28 engine in the North American market affected the L28 in the European market?

 

Remember that the L-series engine was used in a lot more vehicles / applications domestically than it was for export markets. Satisfying the domestic market has always been important for Japanese manufacturers, and if you don't understand what Nissan was doing in their own backyard - or if you discount it completely - then you'll never get anywhere close to understanding the export market cars and parts.

 

I admit that I didn't remember that L-series engines were used in many different models, which Nissan made. But I still think that US markets meant more to Nissan that the markets in Europe. When s30 and s130 came US car markets were growing faster than in Europe and also with s30 Nissan got bigger pieces, so I think they focused to the USA markets. Alan, you are absolutely right that their domestic markets are far more important that any other.

 

Maybe this sounds strange to you, but do you know why L28E later euro-version had P90 head and it wasn't turbocharged? I still think that two engines which we have here are original engines with turbo head. I would be also interested if you, alan or anybody else has more information about the euro-version's of s30 and s130.

[frank280zx]

euro s130 cars after 81 had a p90 f54 NA combo with Flattop pistons with a 2 cc squish pad on top. I believe Nismo sold them as a peformance item..

so yeah there a diffrences in euro and JDM and USDM markets .. same with turbo cars etc...

[RB240z]

Word of note, my 72 came with an "ATK" crate L28 (P90A F54) ....original owner had replaced the L24 when it hit 170K miles.

 

It definetly has some solid compression for a N/A setup....with 70K miles it puts about 180-190psi per cylinder and could get a otherwise stock SU'd 240 to mid 14's. I have never opened it up to look at pistons though.

[240Zed]

The P90 was not a turbo only head, maybe in the USA it was, but that is not the case for other countries.