Guest Locutus Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 Just out of curiosity, why is it everyone replaces thier master cylinder with the tilton 7/8. Has anyone ever used the camaro master cylinder. if not why does the camaro one not work. I have to buy the slave cylinder, and it only comes as a complete unit from GM. if indeed the the connections are the same on the ford lines, then would it be feasible to uses the camaro master cylinder, the ford line run to the camaro slave cylinder? This is one of many places I am trying to save money if at all possible, since I after all will have to get the brand new master cylinder. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 Locutus, I'm sure that the Camaro master cyl can be used, but the mounting points for it is on about a 45 degree angle and you would have to make a bracket and do some bit of fab work to get it bolted up...trust me, it would probably be a pain! As far as buying the "complete" unit from GM...I wouldn't do that either. Selling it as a complete unit is just another way for the dealerships to make a BUNCH of money off of you. You shouldn't have any problem finding a Camaro slave cylinder in a salvage yard...they are all the same on Camaros, Firebirds and Trans Ams. If you are going with a T56, now that's another story and one that Mikekz and I will be addressing tomorrow. I'm going to meet with Mikekz tomorrow, show him my setup and we are going to compare the slave cylinders for the T5 and T56 to see if the T5 cylinders can be used on a T56...if so, then that will give you the ability to bleed from the slave cyl and use the master/slave setup that I talked about in my previous posts. The cost for my parts were about $65 for the master cyl and $30 for the hose...and the slave cyl came with my T5. Hope this helps ya... Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Locutus Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 It is a T56, all I got was the tranny, i have looked around for a slave cylinder, but everyone sells the tranny as a complete unit and they aren't willing to break up the set Let me know what you find out about using the set up you got on a T56. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 4, 2000 Share Posted April 4, 2000 OK... Will do Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattrp Posted April 5, 2000 Share Posted April 5, 2000 I used the stock slave and master cylinder from the datsun using a clutch bracket I made from sheet steel. I have a post previous in this section. I'll try to stick the picture in here, but if not here is the url: http://c6cust231.starstream.net:1234/Matt/Personal/Cars/Clutch%20Bracket%20Picture.jpg Matt 72 500Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 5, 2000 Share Posted April 5, 2000 Locutus, I met with Mikekz and we compared the slave cylinders from the T5 and T56...they are identical, except that the T5 cylinder has a bleeder screw and the hose comes in on the top instead of the end. So I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work...looks to me like a straight forward setup. And you guys just wait until you see what Mikekz has done with his car...It's going to be BAD!!! He brought some new pictures to show me and I hope that he sends some in to post on the site for you all to see. It looks great! Let me know how your clutch/master/slave setup goes...talk to you later. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted April 5, 2000 Share Posted April 5, 2000 I met with Lee today, I'm going to check the T5 slave on my T56 to see if it fits tonight. We had a great time talking Zs and checking out his car. It's looking great, and I had a lot of questions to ask, sorry Lee . Hopefully soon he can come out to see my car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 6, 2000 Share Posted April 6, 2000 Mikekz, I hope that it works for you...Mikelly brought up the volume issue in another post that I didn't know about, but hopefully it will have enough volume to still work. No problem about the questions, I really enjoyed it and I think that I asked you quite a few questions also! And yeah, I want to come over and check out that ride of yours pretty soon. I'm going to get my driveshaft rebalanced next week because on the way home, I noticed a vibration that wasn't there before I did the R200 swap...if that doesn't do the trick, then I want to do a little change to my tranny crossmember. I think that it may be setting the tailshaft about 1" too low, because my driveshaft has just a slight angle to it. My crossmember is a "U" shaped bar that bolts to the stock transmission tunnel mounts, and maybe I could take it off and get you to cut about an inch off the top of it and weld it back together when I come over to check out your Z? I will talk to you soon... Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted April 6, 2000 Share Posted April 6, 2000 Sure Lee, I can help you out with that.Did you ever check your drive line angle? Check Pete's page, he's under the "links" to the left. He's done quite a bit of research on it.I was going to return my slave and master assembley back to the GM dealer, but I think I'll hold on to it for now because of the volume issue. By the way I did check the fit of the T5 slave onto the T56, I think it should work. I may have to dimple the drivers side tunnel a little to clear the hose. Hopefully the volume thing is not an issue. [This message has been edited by Mike kZ (edited April 06, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted April 6, 2000 Share Posted April 6, 2000 I had rear vibration until I did the JTR fabrication to the mustache bar bushings. Vibration is gone... Mike ------------------ "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 6, 2000 Share Posted April 6, 2000 Mikekz and Mikelly, I think that the angle could be the problem. I'm assuming that JTR means that you should drill the top washer out to fit around the middle pin, but are they saying that you should leave the top bushing out all together??? I don't think this is what they mean, but the reason I ask is because the middle pin that came with my new urethane bushings doesn't quite reach all the way to the top and bottom of the bushings...so I'm not sure what I would gain by drilling out the top washer. In other words, even if I drill the top washer and tighten down my moustache bar bushing as tight as I can, I don't think that the pin is going to reach up into the top washer??? But I may be wrong about that. I'm not sure what my angle actually is, but by looking at it, I don't think that 3/16" is going to do it for me...and that's what JTR says you will gain by this conversion. When I bolted up the tranny to the mount, I shimmed it up a bit to raise the tailshaft...but there is still a noticable angle there. Not a drastic angle, but an angle no doubt. But what worries me is that the angle was the same with my R180 and it was smooth as silk at 80MPH...the only vibration I had with it was when I completely let off the throttle in 5th gear at about 1500RPM, it would shimmy just slightly...But it was smooth while accel'ing and steady cruising. The guy at the driveshaft shop told me that I would probably have to rebalance the shaft after changing the rear flange, so I guess that will be my first step...and the JTR fab as well. Thanks guys! Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Lee (JuJu) and others, Spend the $24 at Summit and get the angle finder. Then get under the car and measure the angles. Getting them the same front and rear, and less than 4 degrees is critical for getting away from driveline vibrations. I've been it 3 V8Z cars, and 2 of them had the problem. I don't know if either of them bothered to fix it. All I know is that the noise/vibration is very nasty and unnerving. Someday a U-joint will let go or worse if you don't get this right. Plus driving a car with this nasty vibration is no fun, IMO. Have fun, Pete ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 pparaska, I just got back from the driveline shop. I took my driveshaft in to get it rebalanced and he said it was out of balance pretty bad since I had install the new rear flange. So I'm hoping that will do the trick, since my vibration wasn't very bad...my wife said that she couldn't even feel it, but I'm the kind of person that notices EVERY single shimmy, squeek, and such. I will let you know if the rebalance did the trick...If not I will get the angle finder from Summit. Thanks... Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 10, 2000 Share Posted April 10, 2000 Lee, glad to hear the vibration wasn't that bad and the driveshaft was out of balance. Hopefully, that will fix it. I've never talked to Mike Knell about it, but I wonder if he took the u-joint angles into account when he designed the engine and transmission mounts. I have the 1st edition of the JTR manual and there is no mention of any problems of fixes or the angle issue at all. The 7th edition shows the fix that Mikelly describes. The mount dimensions are the same. What I'm getting at is that I wonder if he considered u-joint angles when he designed the mounts for the engine and trans. I have the feeling he may not have, because some people have noted the u-joint angularity problem and the fix when using the JTR mount method. I've witnessed it in two cars myself that were done with the JTR and others here (Mikelly, maybe others?) have noted they had to do the mustache bar bushing fix to get rid of the vibration. I realize that the Tremec 5spd mount pad and rubber mount I'm using is at a different height below the output shaft centerline that the standard GM trans pad and mount height, so my case of having to add 5/8" to the JTR mount height doesn't fit the usual case. Has anyone measured their u-joint angles before and after doing anything like removing those mustache bar bushings? I got real anal about this on my car because I was using a different trans than the the mount was designed for and I really didn't want the vibration that I had witnessed in other cars. Sorry if I came across as preachy, but one of the things that makes the V8Z conversion not feel "right" or "factory smooth" is the driveline vibration. Other than cooling and non-optimal engine placement (Scarab) I feel this is one area we should pay alot of attention too. Maybe a link to my page on driveline mods or just the section of u-joint angles ought to be in the Tech info page? Maybe I'm getting too rabid about this, I don't know. Anyway, Lee, I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else. Best Regards, Pete ------------------ Pete Paraska - 73 540Z - Marathon Z Project - pparaska@tidalwave.net">pparaska@tidalwave.net - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Pete, I don't see anything in that post that would offend anyone, so don't worry about that. I think a tech section on that subject would be a good idea, and something that everyone "doing the do" should look at. The rebalanced driveshaft did the trick...it's smooth as silk now, but I think that I am going to get the angle finder from Summit just to check mine out and have it on hand, just in case I ever need it in the future...like maybe when I go with a T56??? I'm not using the JTR mounts, and that may be why I haven't had that problem, although my engine is set back, it doesn't sit quite as low as the JTR's. But it sounds as though you have a point there with most JTR users having that problem. Thanks for the info...See ya. Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted April 11, 2000 Share Posted April 11, 2000 Hey Lee, What are you doing this Saturday? I'll be working on my Z if you want to come over and check it out? Let me know. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Lee and Mikelly I read an article in Super Chevy where they were putting in a T56 in a 88 giveaway Camaro that had a T5. They said the only difference between the the two Master/Slave set ups where that the T56 one had a longer hose, and that it mounted differently on the trany. No mention of different volumes. So the T5 slave w/bleader valve may just work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 12, 2000 Share Posted April 12, 2000 Mikekz, Yeah, Saturday sounds good to me...I've got a few things that might be going on. My Mom and Pop are moving and I was going to help them, but we won't be doing that if it's raining. So I will call you and get directions...and I'll get by there, even if only for a short visit to check out your ride. But hopefully I will have time to help you out, if I can. About the slave cylinder...I've been thinking and I have no doubt that it will work, even if the volume happened to be a little less, I mean think about this...if people have used the stock Datsun slave/master cyl and gotten them to work, then you know a 7/8 master and camaro slave will. And even if it doesn't...you KNOW that the T56 slave will work, right? The master cyl and hose would still be the same, you would only loose the ability to bleed from the slave cyl. My Pop worked in the auto parts business all his life, he owned several auto part stores, machine/repair/auto-air-conditioning shops, and during his last 15 years before retiring, he worked as a regional manager for E.I.S. Brake Parts, and that brings me to the point that I'm trying to make, which is if you have to use the T56 slave cyl, he has a little gadget that he invented that will bleed that puppy in a snap...so just let me know if you need it. I will talk to you soon... Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 18, 2000 Share Posted April 18, 2000 Hey Guys just a note on the drive line issue. I have jtr mounts for motor and trans. I had the vibration on acceleration others have described. I spent a Saturday with the angle finder, removed the jtr design spacer between the front cross member and raised the front of the diff. this got my drive angle to less than 1 degree and got rid of the vibration. A Saturday well spent. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 19, 2000 Share Posted April 19, 2000 Mark, I understand taking out teh spacers that JTR says to put between the frame rails and the engine crossmember to help the driveline angles - I did that too). But what puzzles me is that you say you RAISED the front of the differential. Usually, the problem is that the diff's nose is too high to beging with, and the pinion angle is too nose up. I solved that by raising the REAR of the differential. Could you tell us more about what the before and after angles of the crank/trans output shaft and the diff pinion were? Anyway, glad to hear you solved the problem! Thanks, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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