Dave's 280z VK56DE Project

[thehelix112]

Jake,

 

Thanks! Planning on a Z32 5-speed if the adapters end up happening.

 

Heard back from Nizpro in Melbourne. They think that the stock VK56DE bottom end will be perfectly happy making max power around 7000rpm, but alas, also have no experience with VCT engines. They did say though that they'd be surprised if an aftermarket profile with VCT enabled wouldn't work happily, given the systems similarity to the VQ engines, and their experiences with them.

 

Also said that valve springs are a must for extended >6000 rpm work, so I will be ordering a set from them. I've got some thinking to do, as I am unfamiliar with DOHC engines altogether really.

 

Dave

[datsun723]

I'm hoping the VK56 works out because it'll be so wicked!

[thehelix112]

So I've spent a little bit of time thinking about this, going over the JWT cam specs, reading a bit more about VCT, and flicking through the Titan FSM. As I understand it, VCT systems have the intake cam retarded at low rpm, then as rpm rises, the cam is advanced to give the air more time to start moving before the piston is actually drawing it in. This is supported by the cam specs for stock VCT and non-VCT VK56s supplied by JWT. The VCT cam as measured with VCT-off opens at 8 degrees AFTER TDC, while the non-VCT cam opens 2 degrees BEFORE TDC. Similarly VCT closes 60 deg ABDC, while non-VCT closes only 48 deg ABDC.

 

Given the VCT engine has 2 more degrees of duration, this would seem to imply that the VCT system advances the intake cam somewhere in the region of 10 degrees as it runs. I need to pull it apart to verify this though as I've read elsewhere that VTEC for example rotates the cam 25 degrees, so 10 sounds maybe a little low.

 

So the trick to running a large aftermarket CAM with a lot of duration and not bending valves is that the lobes need to be offset retarded by whatever amount the VCT system advances them. That way, at low rpm, the system is retarded to hopefully run a little better (though I have no idea how a large duration cam thats retarded would work, need to think about that one a little more), and at high rpm VCT advances the cam back to where it would be on a non-VCT system for maximum power.

 

So there are a few ways to conceivably go about this:

 

1. Custom billet cams with the lobes offset backwards from the dowels.

2. Vernier cam sprockets allowing the cam to be rotated in relation to the dowel at will.

3. The potentially tight-arse method may involve some combination of reusing the existing cams, as each of the 4 has the lobe at a different offset from the dowel (refer to JWT VK56 installation pdf), and the FSM indicates the cam sprockets have two keyways (one for the left and one for the right banks), which based on the diagram (ha!) appear to be offset just over 90 degrees. Some combination of these might work such that the cam ends up retarded in the VCT-off position. Also need to think about this some more.

 

Dave

[thehelix112]

Been in a little more discussion with nizpro. Based on measurements, or supplying a VCT cam sprocket they should be able to supply cams to suit, with the possibility of making vernier intake cams as part of this. Fingers crossed!

 

Hayabusa intake throttle bodies arrived:

 

 

Unfortunately they taper downwards, as can be seen by comparing wall thickness at the edge in the first two pics above. This is only unfortunate given they taper down from 47.5mm to 41mm, which is far too small for the engine. Fortunately the majority of the taper occurs after the butterfly, so disassembly and some serious time with the Dremel/file will be required to get the port-side shape out to around 46mm or so. A very rough calculation of the head's cross-sectional area (~1632mm^2: details to follow) indicated that a minimum perfectly round (which the port-side of the hayabusa ITBs is not, due to the injector cutout, which is good as it adds some) throttle body would need to be ~46mm. So some relatively serious work to be done, though achievable.

 

Also started dreaming about twin GT3582Rs using the one I have in Oz and another one here, they're thankfully a bit cheaper than when I bought the first one. Can also reuse the external wastegate.

 

So lots of thinking, not much actual work been done.

 

Dave

Edited August 19, 2010 by thehelix112

[thehelix112]

Random out of order todo list:

• Mount engine on engine stand.
  
• Get flange for intake manifold cut with grooves for gaskets.
  
• Space out throttle bodies onto said flanges.
  
• Work out the connections between the throttle bodies and the flanges (quick release/welded/rubber + clamps?).
  
• Work out throttle actuation and tuning.
  
• Get throttle velocity stacks.
  
• Pull off cam covers.
  
• Pull off intake cam sprockets and measure the degree of movement in the VCT system.
  
• Send both intake cam sprockets to melbourne australia for modification to be vernier sprockets.
  
• Get specs on matching camshafts from melbourne.
  
• Get cams and sprockets back.
  
• Reinstall cams and sprockets and valve springs.
  
• Pull off exhaust manifolds and sell them.
  
• Pull off the sump and get it modified for lower installation height.
  
• Get exhaust manifold flanges cut.
  
• And/or just buy exhaust manifolds from JBA.
  
• Take engine to central coast.
  
• Buy remote oil filter setup.
  
• Install remote oil filter adapter.
  
• Test fit engine.
  
• Likely smash things with sledge hammer to make engine fit.
  
• Retest fit engine X 4.
  
• Design engine crossmember.
  
• Get engine crossmember fabricated (beta motorsports?).
  
• Install engine crossmember.
  
• Install engine.
  
• Get autronic from australia.
  
• Figure out ignition signaling from exhaust camshaft (blanking off existing and moving hall effect sensor?).
  
• Pull off engine flywheel.
  
• Send flywheel to 10000rpm.com and get a custom flywheel with triple-plate 5.25" clutch built (be poor).
  
• Install flywheel/clutch.
  
• Buy z32 gearbox.
  
• Buy z32->vk56 gearbox adaptor and get gearbox machined to suit.
  
• Install gearbox.
  
• Fabricate/adapt gearbox crossmember.
  
• Measure tailshaft length.
  
• Get tailshaft shortened with upgraded joints.
  
• Install tailshaft.
  
• Wire up autronic.
  
• Get upgraded fuel pump.
  
• Install upgraded fuel pump.
  
• Work out belt to run the alternator/water pump.
  
• Work out alu piping to the radiator and connections.
  
• Hook up water piping.
  
• Modify throttle setup to a cable type.
  
• Test fire.
  
• (Pray).
  
• Fabricate remainder of the exhaust, side exit as short as possible.
  
• Tune.
  
• Do skids all over the ******* place.
  
• Resintall doors.
  

[datsun723]

Sledge hammers always make things fun

[thehelix112]

Got the engine on a stand:

 

Yesterday removed all the hoses from the engine, and gave the engine a bit of a wipe down. Also, pulled the power steering pump and air-conditioning compressor off.

 

Worked out how to alter the belt arrangement so just the alternator, water pump, and crank pulley are involved, using the stock tensioner. The trick is to take the ilder pulley from the AC compressor, and the tensioner pulleys off. Then to use the ilder pulley on the tensioner, which requires a bearing with the idler OD and the tensioner bearing ID (which is a little bit bigger). Haven't got this yet, but below are the part numbers:

 

Tensioner: nsk 237 6203DUL1

Idler: nsk E08 6301DULX

 

Also started pulling down one of the hayabusa intake manifolds to start spacing it out. Gotta call in a favour to get a flange machined.

 

Dave

Edited December 27, 2010 by thehelix112

[thehelix112]

Just found this white about NSK bearing part numbers: http://www.ahrinternational.com/NSK_nomenclature.shtml

 

Still got no damn idea where to find a bearing that has idler OD and tensioner ID, might have to go to a NSK supplier or something.

 

Ok so based on this: http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0093/0900766b80093229.pdf and http://hongkong01.rs-online.com/web/4090439.html the Tensioner NSK 6203 is 40mm OD and 17mm ID. Idler NSK 6301 is 37mm OD and 12m ID. Which matches up with the basic measurements I've taken, but its good to have the Internet tell me!

 

Bah, looks like there aren't any off the shelf bearings that are 37mm OD and 17mm ID. Shiiit. There is a 37mm OD and 19mm ID. So I guess I'll need to get a spacer or something, bugger.

 

Dave

Edited December 27, 2010 by thehelix112

[thehelix112]

Got it:

 

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PSearch2.asp?reqTyp=parametric&act=psearch&FAM=ballrollerbearings&FT_158=229987&FT_5766=239384&FT_940=225006&FT_518=52165&FT_6437=255672&session=ballrollerbearings,158=229987,5766=239384,940=225006,518=52165;6437=255672&ScreenWidth=1280&McMMainWidth=1006

 

Goes from 37mm to 35mm, and then any 6003 bearing, which I will try and stay with NSK, and goes from 35mm to 17mm. The only thing is the 6003 bearing is 10mm wide, there as both the others are 12mm wide.. though that should be ok I think? Worth the risk in ordering them I think, given its like less than $20 all up.

 

Dave

[thehelix112]

Ok ordered from mcmaster carr:

 

5972K84 Metric Steel Ball Bearing Double Sealed Bearing NO. 6003 for 17mm Shaft Dia

2896K15 Metric Ball Bearing Shim Ring for Bearing Number 6202/6300, 35mm Outside Diameter

 

We'll see how we go,

 

Dave

[thehelix112]

Yeah so I've got the parts, and they should work, but I don't have a hydraulic press and I cannot get the existing bearing out of the pulley: It's well wedged in there.

 

In other news, I ordered and received Rota RB-R 17x9.5 wheels and got stoke tire pros in Santa Monica to put tirerack Hankook Ventus Z214 in a 275/40R17 on them. Pics:

 

And I am trying to order ZG flares this week from classicdatsun.com, though so far unresponsive via email.

 

Also going to see the car this weekend, to put the doors back on and see if I can figure out why the right-front is flat.

I'll also be bringing back the rear control arms and dropping them off to have them fixed.

If I can get the car drivable again, and I see no reason why I can't, then I'll be getting it ready for the front flare install, and to drive back down on the old rubber and take it to EMWHYR0HEN's for the rear flare install.

 

Upcoming projects are installing the TTT strut tops on all fours and then getting my teeth stuck into the brake conversion.

 

Dave

[jakeoster]

thats some serious tire right there haha. Should hook up great when your slamming through the gears

[thehelix112]

Thanks man. Am heading up to mock them up on the car (sans flares unfortunately) so should have some more stupid-looking pics shortly.

 

Dave

[thehelix112]

Before:

After:

 

Before:

After:

 

Before:

After:

 

Dave

Edited March 14, 2011 by thehelix112

[StealthFighter2]

Wow!, Those look awesome, can't wait for the finished product.

[thehelix112]

Thanks Stealth. I can't wait either. Will be picking up the flares this week and dropping the control arms off to get unfuxored. Should be great once its done. I've also rewritten up my initial posts in this that are a tutorial for the coil over and tie rod ends and sway bar crap I've done. Waiting for PM access to get an admin/mod to update them with the corrected content.

 

Dave

[thehelix112]

Thanks RTz for fixing the pics in the initial few posts of this thread! Much obliged.

 

Dave

[RTz]

[thehelix112]

Took another swing at the VK56 tensioner setup (literally).

 

Step 1: Flip the tensioner so you can see the side that goes to the engine, put the steel spacer on the bearing and take a few good swings at it with a hammer. A good direct hit should loosen it up and you should then be able to tap it out. You need to pick it up for the final few taps as it will just hit the ground otherwise.

Advice:I would recommend NOT doing this on a concrete floor like yours truly as I bent the lip on it which I'll have to straighten out later.

 

Step 2: Slip in the shim ring from McMaster-Carr (mentioned above)

 

Step 3: Tap in the new bearing using the same spacer to distribute the load. Obviously much less force is required than in getting the old one out.

 

Step 4: Reassemble the pulley including its front protective cover, but you need to use the LHT bolt that goes to the tensioner. Bolt this back to the engine.

 

 

Next task, aside from ordering a new tensioner coz I stripped the thread in this one thinking it was RHT, and straightening out the lip on the pulley, is to start hunting for a belt to suit. The approximate length required is around 110cm (44").

 

Dave

Edited March 20, 2011 by thehelix112

[thehelix112]

Good haul today. Picked up the ZG flares from classicdatsun.com and then swung over to Corona where I got some replacement rear lower control arms from 280ZForce. Powder-coated and all. Pics:

 

Flares:

 

Control arms:

 

 

Next time I'm at the car I'll definitely put the control arms on, and will try to start on the front ZG flares.

 

Dave