hughdogz Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I finally solved my trigger sync error problem! The sync reference hole was drilled too close. See the details in my project page post: http://forums.hybridz.org/showpost.php?p=881505&postcount=27 Cheers, -hughdogz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 16, 2008 Administrators Share Posted April 16, 2008 I hope you don't mind me stealing your picture and adding a little comment? The trigger wheel on the left ran fine below 4500 RPM. At or above 4500 it began producing trigger errors (loosing track). The trigger wheel on the right produces no errors. Wolf has been able to read the high resolution row successfully, so it doesn't appear to be a processing problem. Rather, it appears that there is a difference in the optical sensor low res. row. The 'light path' may be broader. Thats my guess, anyhow. I shoud take one apart just for giggles. The successful triggers sync hole is .100" in dia., and about .100" edge-to-edge from the slit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Ron, I was hoping you would add some good comments to the thread. Thanks again for all your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Why is the sync hole now on the opposite side of the slit? Both pictures show the hole to the right of the slit, but the disc on the right looks to be flipped upside down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 17, 2008 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2008 Why is the sync hole now on the opposite side of the slit?Both pictures show the hole to the right of the slit, but the disc on the right looks to be flipped upside down Good eye. Its not upside down, just 180 degrees out. It just changes sequencing... nothing to do with the trigger errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 The thread title says "crank". Is this really a crank sensor? Looks more like one from an optical distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 The thread title says "crank". Is this really a crank sensor? Looks more like one from an optical distributor. Z-Ya, you're right it is not a crank angle sensor in the traditional sense (i.e. missing tooth type). I knew I might get called on the lack of correct terminology...maybe one of the admins can change the title to optical or timing sensor, if necessary. I would still argue that crank angle sensor is more descriptive than optical sensor since it is the angle of the crank that determines the event timing. Whether the sensor is placed on the crank itself, the harmonic damper, camshaft, timing chain sprocket, oil pump / distributor shaft...it's all doing the same thing basically. We strive to be 110% correct on HBZ, but I'd rather not get hung up on semantics unless I'm completely off base. You make a good point Z-Ya, and I know you're an EMS Guru, so I hold your comment in very high regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 17, 2008 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2008 The thread title says "crank". Is this really a crank sensor? Looks more like one from an optical distributor. Pete, Technically you're right, its being used as a cam angle sensor (which also indirectly corrolates with the crank). However, Nissan labeled it a crank angle sensor years ago, so I guess they're both right, depending on which side of the coin you're standing on. Admittedly, Cam is more descriptive. I'll change the title to CAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-ya Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I wasn't really nit picking, it just didn't look like a trigger wheel that would work very well attached to a crank damper . So it is a 82-83 disty trigger wheel (that is what it looks like), correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted April 17, 2008 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2008 So it is a 82-83 disty trigger wheel (that is what it looks like), correct? Affirmative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Ok, dumb question number 163 (well that's how many posts I have made, so it must be close), here we go. I have the same trigger wheel in my car, minus the drilled hole. I have also seen RB and 300ZX trigger wheels that instead of the drilled hole, have different width slits for determining cylinder #1. So how does my computer know which cylinder is number 1? There doesn't seem to be any reference signal slot on the disc to determine cylinder 1? Thanks in advance guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted July 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 13, 2008 .... I have the same trigger wheel in my car, minus the drilled hole. I have also seen RB and 300ZX trigger wheels that instead of the drilled hole, have different width slits for determining cylinder #1. So how does my computer know which cylinder is number 1? There doesn't seem to be any reference signal slot on the disc to determine cylinder 1? Thanks in advance guys. Are you using the Wolf Direct Fit, (aka plug and play) with the stock RB wiring harness on your RB? The Wolf “Direct Fit†utilizes a black box in the OE harness connector, as I understand it, that is where the magic takes place in interpreting the VG30DE/RBxxDE optical sensor. I don’t know for sure how, my best guess is that the black box is interpreting the width of the slots to determine cylinder #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 Hi Garvice, I'm thinking of swapping over to a Z32 CAS like Ron has installed on Clint Barnt's n/a L28. It is much more compact and clean-looking in my opinion. I believe I can use a Z32 CAS with my L28ET if I flip the disk over (L-series CAS' spin CCW, while VG's spin clockwise) to use the leading edges of the slits (which are always 60 degrees separation) and drill a sync hole. Ron would know more for sure... As Paul mentioned, it may be in the way the Wolf is configured..."magicially" it can use the slit widths to determine "sync" and "reference" (with the help of the black-box?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Paul, hughdogz. Sorry, I just read my post and realised how vague it was. Rubish in, rubish out (Sorry, I don't mean that your responses are rubish, but that due to my rubish question, you had very little to respond with). My setup is a L28 with the same CAS shown in the picture above but without the drilled sync hole. I.E. High res slits on outside perimeter, 6 equal width Low res slits on the inside perimeter. The computer is a megasquirt (for now). What my question should have been is. How does any computer, know which cylinder my engine currently has at TDC from my CAS signal (Which on a CRO would look like 6 equal space and equal width square waves. I.E. A periodic square wave)? What prompted me to ask this was the following: 1/ Z32 and RB Signal discs that I have seen have the different width slits. From these slits, I can see that a computer could measure the width of the disc as apposed to the width of the smaller high resolution slits and therefore determine which cylinder needs to currently fire. 2/ My Disc has the same width slits (Talking about the low res inside 6 slits) and no reference slit or hole, as Hughdogz has drilled. Hopefully I have made sense that time. Thanks for your input guys, greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted July 14, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 14, 2008 Paul, hughdogz. Sorry, I just read my post and realised how vague it was. Rubish in, rubish out (Sorry, I don't mean that your responses are rubish, but that due to my rubish question, you had very little to respond with). My setup is a L28 with the same CAS shown in the picture above but without the drilled sync hole. I.E. High res slits on outside perimeter, 6 equal width Low res slits on the inside perimeter. The computer is a megasquirt (for now). What my question should have been is. How does any computer, know which cylinder my engine currently has at TDC from my CAS signal (Which on a CRO would look like 6 equal space and equal width square waves. I.E. A periodic square wave)? What prompted me to ask this was the following: 1/ Z32 and RB Signal discs that I have seen have the different width slits. From these slits, I can see that a computer could measure the width of the disc as apposed to the width of the smaller high resolution slits and therefore determine which cylinder needs to currently fire. 2/ My Disc has the same width slits (Talking about the low res inside 6 slits) and no reference slit or hole, as Hughdogz has drilled. Hopefully I have made sense that time. Thanks for your input guys, greatly appreciated. Garvice, The late 280-ZXT dizzy has the trigger wheel you are describing, 6 equal width slots. The ECU that utilizes that trigger wheel has no way to know where number #1 cylinder is and does not need to know that. The ECU just needs to know when to fire the coil, the dizzy directs the ignition pulse to the correct cylinder, the injectors are batch fire and all fire at the same time, once per crank revolution, so ever third slot that goes by the optical sensor, the ECU triggers the injectors. The added Sync hole allows the WOLF EMS to identify where cylinder 1 is at, not sure if we can get WOLF to interpret the variable width slots. Hmmm… As for Mega Squirt and optical sensors, I have no clue if Mega Squirt can interpret or utilize the additional sync hole we use with the WOLF EMS or if it is capable of interpreting the variable width slots of the newer style VG30DE/RBxxDE chopper wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Are you using the Wolf Direct Fit, (aka plug and play) with the stock RB wiring harness on your RB? The Wolf “Direct Fit†utilizes a black box in the OE harness connector, as I understand it, that is where the magic takes place in interpreting the VG30DE/RBxxDE optical sensor. I don’t know for sure how, my best guess is that the black box is interpreting the width of the slots to determine cylinder #1. Shall I post pictures of the black-box innards? I cracked one open and found a lot of surface mount IC's and resistors. ronnie-t tells me it's not required for a wire-up, but it might be interesting to see how it works with the standard harness! It uses an s14 configured pcb (it says so on the board!) with some modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted July 15, 2008 Administrators Share Posted July 15, 2008 garvis, If you're inquiring to understand how this applies to MS, this thread will be nearly useless. And honestly, I'd rather not drag it off track any farther. However, I did hear a rumor Matt Cramer with DIY Autotune is/was working on a replacement disk that WILL work with MS. Give him a shout... http://www.diyautotune.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Man, I feel really stupid now. Of course my computer wouldn't need to know where #1 TDC is, that's why I have a distributor. Man I feel stupid. Sorry guys, it was just a passing thought when I was looking at this thread again. Shows that I really should have thought it through properly before posting. Thanks for your patience and sorry for getting off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SATAN Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Hi Garvice, I'm thinking of swapping over to a Z32 CAS like Ron has installed on Clint Barnt's n/a L28. It is much more compact and clean-looking in my opinion. I believe I can use a Z32 CAS with my L28ET if I flip the disk over (L-series CAS' spin CCW, while VG's spin clockwise) to use the leading edges of the slits (which are always 60 degrees separation) and drill a sync hole. Ron would know more for sure... As Paul mentioned, it may be in the way the Wolf is configured..."magicially" it can use the slit widths to determine "sync" and "reference" (with the help of the black-box?). hughdogz- Did you ever try this? I mean using the z32 CAS with your L28ET. What parts of the CAS are you using? Are you just using the wheel? This is the info I need to know. If you are just using the wheel. then I know that the z32 wheel is the same diameter of the L28 wheel. The L28 CAS will bolt into my z31 dizzy. I need the z32 wheel from AEM to fit into my z31 dizzy some how, but the z31 CAS disk appears to be larger than all the other CAS disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 9, 2008 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2008 If you are just using the wheel. then I know that the z32 wheel is the same diameter of the L28 wheel. Its not... L28ET is 2.120" dia, Z32 is 1.964" (and the slot rows are on different diameters as well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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