lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Help! I have had a leak for some time now. A first I thought it was the oil pan so I replaced the gasket. Used a lot of Permatex. Didn't want any more leaks. But I still had a leak at the rear of the engine exclusively. So I figured that it must be the rear main so I pulled the trans and flywheel and replace the large "3 inch" rear main seal. The old one came out easily, like it was loose and the knew one went in hard. Tapped it in with a PVC sleeve. I put it all back together and let it sit for a week or so up on jacks. Now at this point there is no oil in the engine or trans. Everything is bone dry inside but on the outside the is still leaking from somewhere. Mind you that I cleaned every thing real well before putting it back together. So I put oil and trans fluid into it and it continued to leak. The car had not yet even been started after reassembly. I was hopping that there was just some residule oil coming down from somewhere but the puddle is to big for that. After sitting for a couple of weeks still up on jacks there is probably 2 or 3 tablespoons on the drip pan. I change the valve cover gasket, no help, still a leaken. What the H___L could be going on. I can't stand oil leaks. Thank for any help, I need it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Ok have you verified that the problemis actually from the lower section o the engine becuse going from the pan to the valve cover is kind of a big jump. I would pressure wash the underside of the engine and get the sides with some degreaser and rags. Your goal is to get everything clean so you can see where the leak is coming from. By the way if you haven't run the car there shouldn't be any leaks from the valve cover as it need oil pressure to get up that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 That was my point. No oil in the engine and I still have the leak. When I had the trans out, I also had the Valve cover off. I cleaned every thing from the valve cover to the bottom of the engine with rags. Didn't use degreaser as the car was apart and in my garage but I thought I had it pretty clean. Getting oil to the top of the engine is no problem when you fill the crank case. There seems to be some oil around the brand new Valve cover gasket. Just a little glissening. Maybe it is seeping. Anyway I cleaned the bottom of the engine real good tonight and we'll see in the morning. I changed the large rear main seal but I didn't change the two side seals as I was told that no one changes those unless they are tearing down the engine, What do you think? Still the engine has only been started twice now for maybe 45 seconds each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Its not the drain plug is it. I had a bad plug that just slowly dripped before. That could also explain the leak when there isn't any oil in the engine. Just whatever is remaining in the pan. Thats my only thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Comletely dry around the plug. Nothing coming from the front. Just right below the starter dripping from the rear engine plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I would just wait and see in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Yea, I retightened those Valve cover bolts. The have to be 7 to 10 lbs of torque. Any thoughts on the main seals I talked about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Well if you've replaced then you shouldn't have any issues there. Did you put a bead of silicone in the grooves on the sides of the main cap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 As I said, I did not replace the 2 side seals and didn't pull the main cap. Should I have ?. Just replace the round main rear seal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Oh ok sorry I didnt see where you said that. Its always good to replace them anytime you remove the main cap, but I have gone without replacing them and it worked fine. It depends on what condition they were in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Well this morning I checked the leak and it was there. As I said, I cleaned the area real well. The oil was coming down from under the starter and collection on the wider part of the block that jutts out under the starter.It wasn't coming from along the block horizontally. Definitely coming down from higher up. So I pulled the starter too get a better look. What I saw was a little trailer streaming down the side of the block from Spark plug #6 to that projection that I mentioned. I can see it because of the trail it left. I had just painted the block so I could see it clearly. The streamer was very light though but that has to be where all the oil is coming from. What I can't see is where it is coming from,Valve cover or maybe the head Can you get oil leaks from the head or maybe something at the front of the engine that runs back along the head gasket before runing down behind the starter. I do not know of any problems with the head gasket or the engine. Nothing to suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 And you are getting this leak without running the engine at all?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Yes. ALso I noticed the is oil running along the head gasket. I am thinking it is coming fro the front somewhere and running back towoard the rear before streming down. I have the starter out now so I can't start it up although the big puddle was while the car was sitting up on jacks and not running. The leak right now seems to be slight. Maybe it is just residule oil after having had the valve cover off for a few weeks. Oil could have migrated down to the head gasket and now is making its way toward the rear. If so, this puddleing should end. I don't know! Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 After sitting all night I don't see any sign of an ongoing leak, just some residule oil but I have not started it up yet. I've got to put the starter back in and start it up and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 After sitting all night I don't see any sign of an ongoing leak, just some residule oil but I have not started it up yet. I've got to put the starter back in and start it up and see what happens. You can use some blake parts cleaner to remove oil from all those areas, then wipe with a rag, it'll disolve all the oil and evaporate, then you should really be able to see where it's coming from. Aside from that, you can get some UV dye, and put that in, run the engine for a few, then look with a black light, it'll glow brightly where the active leak is. it's a pain, and I know what you mean, I hate leaks myself too!!! Good luck Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 OK, I used the brake cleaner and completely de-oiled the lower engine. IT WAS DRY. Left it sit for a day and checked for leaks. None seen. Left it sit for another day and I see a thin trail of oil coming fron the oil pan under one of the pan bolts which means nothing.THe block on either side of the pan is dry, nothing coming down from the head area. Must be a pan leak. Mind you, I haven't started the engine one time through this effort. Oil just sitting in the pan is leaking out. Does that sound right to anyone. I just changed the pan gasket. Bought it at MSA and used a lot of Permatex Sealant and still I have a leak. What is the trick to getting this pan sealed up. I heard someone recommend using studs instead of bolts. Is this necessary because I'll do it if it stops the leak. Can the pan be removed without raising the engine. I have a 1975Z. Maybe by rotating the crank or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Okay, Well where that leak was next to that pan bolt is likely where your leak is, it does sound like a pan leak. I've heard two schools of thought on Pan Gaskets, one says use a cork gasket, with no gasket maket permatex, and another says use lots of permatex on any gasket. idea being that the cork will absorb some oil and expand, making the seal, where anyother type would not expand and would be harder to seal... Which type of gasket did you get? Cork or other? You may need to buy a new gasket, and try to replace it again. If you take off the pan, you'll need to inspect it especially around where that bolt hole was, make sure it's flat. Sometimes old pans will develop a "wave" in them where the bolts put pressure on the pan, especially if the pan bolts are over-tightened. you can hammer it back flat and likely get a better seal. May not be the case... I've used a drill w/ a 10 mil adapter to put my pan bolts off and on, it works really well, saves ears, and knuckles. Follow it up w/ a torque wrench. I don't think you need studs, but use the right torque on the bolts, because snapping on off is a pain in the ass to fix. (been there) Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Don't remember whether it was cork or not. Maybe I ccan call MSA and ask them. The stud would help keep the gasket aligned better. This pan has metal plates that go on before the bolts go in so I checked for dempled bolt holes but not too closely. With the back up plates. I thought that wouln't be a problem. I seem to recall having trouble keeping the gasket aligned properly. At the rear of the pan you can't see behind because of the engine back plate. I was a little concerned with that. About taking the pan off. Can it be done without raising the engine? Thanks, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z or bust Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I always had a problem with those stupid cork gaskets. I went to a rubber one and never had a problem after that. I just use regular bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgoodson@pacbell.net Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Where can I get the rubber type. All I find is paper or rubberized Cork from Pep Boys or would that work? It's FelPro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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