Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I'm considering switching to an aluminum radiator to help with cooling at the track. On the street my 4 core copper/brass is just fine, but I was seeing temps of 215 at the track last weekend with ambient temps of 95 F. I have the AC condenser up front and suspect that's part of the problem but don't want to remove it. From what I've read here and elsewhere the more modern Al radiators have less resistance to air flow and while Al is not as good of a heat conductor as copper/brass, the older designs (which is what mine is) are apparently not that efficient. I've already ensured that there are no other major sources of airflow into the engine compartment except through the radiator. I did have some fin damage on the AC condenser which I've since straightened. So I'm leaning towards this unit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/All-Aluminum-1970-75-Datsun-240z-260z-Radiator-110AA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33602QQihZ012QQitemZ220259419403QQtcZphoto Has anyone tried it? Also, what about going with a later 75-78 unit which has a larger core? Mine is still in the car and with the AC condenser in place I can't see if going with a deeper core would expose more of it to air flow. I know it would hang down lower, but my spook already hangs low so I'm not worried. Also, what about mounting it? I know I'd need to isolate it to protect against corrosion, but I'm concerned about frame flex and what it would do to the radiator. Has anyone found a simple way to soft mount this type of unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 One idea I have for soft mounting is to enlarge the holes on the rad brackets and fit rubber grommets with an ID that is perhaps 1/4" larger than the mounting bolt. The idea is that this would provide a nominal 1/8" play in any direction as the chassis twists. It also has the benefit of electrically isolating the rad from the chassis. A large flat washer would go on the engine side followed by 2 nuts tightened against each other so that the grommet was under some compression, but not so much that it couldn't move a little. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 As Ive mentioned before on people wanting a better radiator, work on using the stock one more efficient. Its proven that radiator ducting and fans have been able to cool the motor more than enough. Sure it looks cool but it is spendy (al. radiator) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125186&highlight=number+cooling Curious of what you consider of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Woldson, I read that thread with great interest even though I'm NA. So far I'm not sure what to do differently in my situation based on that thread. Do you have any thoughts? Challenger, prior to last weekend I agreed with you. But I'm out of things to do (save remove the AC condenser which I don't want to do). My temps are fine all of the time except when running hard on the track. So I'm not too far from where I think I need to be. For example, I ran 40/60 antifreeze/water and added water whetter as well. I suppose I could go 100% water + water whetter, which should help, although I doubt it's going to drop the temp 20 degrees. I've looked at ducting, but not sure how that will help me. There was only one opening into the engine compartment (3" hole to the left of the radiator on the passenger side) which I've closed up. Other than that, the only path for air to get into the engine compartment is through the radiator. The good news is that I never went over 215 F, but I'd feel better with it lower when I'm running that hard for that long. The rest of the time I have no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 by ducting, I think he means blocking off a portion of the front of your car. it SEEMS to be illogical, but from what I understand, By having such a large opening, at higher speeds, the pressures inside the engine compartment increase, causing the air in front of the radiator to stall and slow down, reducing the cooling efficiency. By reducing the size of the opening, you reduce the amount of air entering the area, BUT at the same time, you reduce the pressure in the engine bay, so instead of pushing air through the radiator, the air gets pulled through the radiator due to the reduced pressures, and increasing the cooling efficiency. Ever notice how small the front opening is on newer cars? In order for it to work the front of the car needs to be totally air tight except for around the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 It seems you might have a pretty good setup. Have you considered wetterwater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 M4well is pointing out a very vald issue. Search that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 We're about to have the same discussion covered in this thread http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=122197 and that wasn't my intention with this post. I agree that better ducting should help some, but I'm trying to avoid changing the external appearance. The only noticeable mods I've made are the panasport wheels (necessary to fit performance tires and arguably period-correct), and the spook ( which is also period-correct). I'm fortunate that my 73's body, paint, and interior are in pretty good condition. On top of that, I don't have a welder nor welding skills (yet) to build ducting. Like I said earlier, I'm only concerned with improving cooling while on the track. And it may be that what I'm trying to do (build a reasonable track car that otherwise looks stock) is just not possible. But if an aluminum radiator could help flow more air and/or dissipate heat better, then it would fit in with my approach to keeping the car externally stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 It seems you might have a pretty good setup. Have you considered wetterwater?Yes, I ran with that and 40/60 anti-freeze/water last weekend. Temps were around 215 on the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 You could build the ducting out of some rubber molding, and pop rivets. it's not like you need to know how to weld. But I do understand your dilemma of wanting to keep a visually stock car. you could make it LOOK stock though, by say, turning the top grill into your block off plate, and riveting some duct work to draw air in from the bottom half of the grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockerstar Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 You might want to look at that radiator again. It's only a two row The integrated trans cooler is pretty cool though. I think that it would be possible to keep a relatively stock look if you painted all of your ducting work a nice flat black when you were done with it. It seems like that would make it stick out a lot less compared to having it being aluminum or having shiny rivets drawing attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4xwellmurd3r Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 You might want to look at that radiator again. It's only a two row The integrated trans cooler is pretty cool though. I think that it would be possible to keep a relatively stock look if you painted all of your ducting work a nice flat black when you were done with it. It seems like that would make it stick out a lot less compared to having it being aluminum or having shiny rivets drawing attention. that's sort of why I mentioned integrating it into the stock grill. it won't really pop out so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 I actually made one of those. It had a piece of sheetmetal mounted to the back. You could hardley tell the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Derek, I think I remember seeing your pictures (it's a little hard to keep all these discussions straight right now). My issue is that I have a 240Z (73) with the bumper in place. The bumper supports are what makes it extra hard to block/channel air. If those weren't there, it would be simpler to build something behind the grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Going back to one of my original questions, how have others soft-mounted the Al radiators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 215 on the track on a hot day is nothing and its not something the aluminum radiator is going to improve. L6 engines put a lot of heat into the oil when running on a track. Adding an oil cooler will do more to bring the coolant temps down then going from a 4 row brass to a two row aluminum. For radiator mounting with a stock style side flange radiator, use 4 Lord mounts part number 9376K213 from McMaster-Carr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 So is 215+ for 20 minutes at a time maybe 10 - 15 sessions per year going to make a significant difference in engine life? Alternatively, if I were to add an oil cooler, what about using parts like these? Adapter plate: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=PRM-1060&N=700+4294843279+115&autoview=sku Thermostat: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=PRM-1060&N=700+4294843279+115&autoview=sku Is 3/8" hose enough or is 1/2" required? Also, could the transmission cooler of the radiator be used to cool engine oil? I'm guessing it can since it would only flow oil when it was hot and less viscous. That would be easier than trying to mount a separate cooler in front of the rad and AC condenser. But if the oil cooler on the rad takes away from capacity to cool the coolant, then that might not be a good idea. Sorry for the many questions, but oil coolers are completely new to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 Am I better off going with a kit like this with the cooler mounted in front of the AC condenser? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=PRM-10189&N=700+115&autoview=sku I have a $30 off coupon at Summit that expires in a few days so now is the time if I'm going to go this route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 So is 215+ for 20 minutes at a time maybe 10 - 15 sessions per year going to make a significant difference in engine life? No significant difference. Is 3/8" hose enough or is 1/2" required? 1/2" - you don't want to see a significant pressure drop across the cooler. Get an Earl's thermostatic sandwich plate. If you ahve the part number Summit can get it: http://www.holley.com/types/Sandwich%20Style%20Oil%20Thermostats.asp Also, buy a real racing oil cooler like a Setrab or a Mocal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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