Tim240z Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 You should be able to do the R230 conversion for less than, or about $500.00, and have strong CV shafts too, but if you already have a R200 with a 'good' ratio, then a new LSD unit might be a better alternative. The only thing which may be a factor is the R230s will generally have less mileage on them than a 15-20 year old R200 and have viscous LSD, so wear not so much of a problem. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruben Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 I just purchased a Quaife A.T.B. “LSD” differential for my R200. Quaife has dropped the price to $995.00. That’s $200.00 off the list price of $1195.00. And for about another month Autotech Sport Tuning/Quaife America will take off an additional 10% for a total of $895.00. I know it’s still a lot of money, LOL. But if you compare it to the Nismo LSD unit selling for $750.00 then it’s a great deal. I don’t know what some of the other options like the R230 and 300ZX R200 conversions are costing, but if it’s anywhere close to $800.00 then this might be another option to consider. If anyone is interested, contact Scott Brunet at Autotech Sport Tuning/Quaife America, (800) 553-1055 or (714) 240-4000. They also have a website at www.autotech.com or www.quaifeamerica.com. Ruben ’72 240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruben Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 Tim, Does the $500.00 include the cost of any additional mods. I thought I read that the CV shafts required modifications and a custom flange adapter. All these mods add up. Don't get me wrong, I did consider the R230 conversion. However, I already had invested in a good R200 and CV shafts. So for me the Quaife was the best solution. However, I do think that the Quaife will probably always be more expensive that doing the R230 or 300ZX R200. Ruben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Lessee. I spent a little over $600. What was expensive was the adapters as I don't know anyone with a shop and got charged up the A$$ for the one time custom job. Owen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Ruben, You'll be happy with the Quaife. Its worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Ruben, I spent $280 for the diff and sideshafts. The driveshaft cost me $80.00. The driveshaft conversion (infinity to 700R4)was quoted at $55.00. The new sideshafts are going to cost me $200 or so, but that is new NASCAR quality stuff, you can have it done for less than half if you use the oe stuff. The inner CVs(to be used on the outer) will cost $75 each from the dealer, again could be done much cheaper, but I want NEW stuff. The flange adapters have been quoted at $45 each. Well with mostly NEW stuff the total is: $855.00 I still think that it could be done for $500, I am just being anal about getting new/good parts. I don't know what the conversion from R180 to R200 open would cost, but just subtract that from this conversion price and see if the difference is worth it Like I said, if you already have a LSD R200, then it might be worth paying for a new LSD and staying with the existing setup. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Ruben: have you purchased all new bearings, seals, bolts etc? I recall this adding up, if you have sourced this all out it'd be great archive info to have the PN's/costs here. Parts/labour..seeing the whole cost picture would help some of us budget/plan as we've 'admired' the quaiffe from afar for sometime now. I recall pricing out a clutch type full rebuild and bearings/discs/seals etc all added up let alone gears if you don't have them. From scratch I'd want to build a quaiffe if $ wasn't an issue. I hope someday here to be able to enjoy one, till then the clutch one will have to get me by. We all look fwd to hearing your reports on it, I KNOW it's fine stuff as John's backed up. Oh yeah, a few rather 'hard' parts users have posted here who go thru diff's quite quickly pegging it ....quaiffes will send an immense shockload thru your drivetrain IF they go from poor traction to great traction AND you're really putting the power down. That is the only downside I'm aware of (sides $) and not one that influences me. I don't peg it on washboard or slick surfaces waiting for the hookup on the dry surface. It could also happen if a rear tire (or two) caught some air AND you added extra rpm/power while in flight so it again induced that shock on landing (no clutches like other diffs to take that shock in a quaiffe). It's circumstances like this that have snapped a halfshaft in a quaiffe setup. John, have you done some lapping days etc and caught any air on the FIA curbs etc? I recall you've done your share of roadrace lapping days.(ie. beyond autox speeds)Any factor or that's not a common WOT location...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruben Posted October 10, 2001 Author Share Posted October 10, 2001 Thanks again John. I'm going to take your recommendation and take my diff to Unitrax in Anaheim for the install. I can't wait to try it out. Ruben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 Ross, I've done a lot of lapping days and haven't experienced the shock issue you mention above. Its probably caused by a normal operation of the Quaife (or a Gleason/Torsen): the diff will go "open" if an inside tire is significantly unloaded and then will return to normal operation as load is reapplied to that tire. On my 240Z, this unloading is rare becuase I've softened the rear suspension since installing the Quaife. When it has occurred I end up with wheelspin which cushions the "reloading" of the diff. I could see, if you were getting one of the rear tires airborne and then slamming it back down, how shock loads could be transmited back through the driveline. But if you're banging off curbs that hard, you're going to break something on the car regardless of what diff you're running. There's a bigger issue with the Quaife. Within four months of installing the diiff in my 240Z I broke both rear stub axles. One at an autocross and the other at a track event (at over 90 mph). I attribute this failure to a couple things: 1. 30 year old 240Z (25 spline) stub axles that had 7 years of racing on them (7 years is way to long to run a set of stub axles on a race car). 2. The better torque application the Quaife gives. The Quaife will put more of the available torque through the driveline, so any weakness will be exacerbated. Since then I've put new 280Z (27 spline) stub axles on the car, replaced all the fasterners on the driveline, rebuilt the driveshaft, and replaced the diff mounts. [ October 11, 2001: Message edited by: johnc ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 John, thanks as usual for your well informed reply. I've contemplated softening my rear suspension (swapping out HD rear sway bar for the OEM one) but haven't gotten to it. I suspect that alone would increase my rear traction. At Seattle International Raceway you can take an FIA curb quite quickly and perhaps tag a little air, I recall one at Thunderhill also on a high speed exit in which one isn't purposely punishing your suspension, it's just the fastest line around the course (as I was told) occasionally. Kissing the edge of one and nailing it higher up can be vastly different as well I've been keen on the quaiffe stuff for some time and have enjoyed watching it come available and especially the price drops in recent times (I can match any pricing on quaiffe units, including that above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruben Posted October 13, 2001 Author Share Posted October 13, 2001 Ross and anyone else that is interested, Here's an update on the Quaife install. I don't have a P/N breakdown yet but here is what I got. I had Unitrax install the Quaife and replace all bearings and seals on the R200 3.90 differential. Well, the cost was more than I expected but not by much. I now have a completely rebuilt differential with LSD to boot. The cost break down: Parts: $301.94 Bearing Kit Pinon Seal Pinon Nut Shim Kit Crush Sleeve Axel Bearings Axel Seals Lucas Stablizer Posi Additive Oil Labor: $195.00 Environmental Fee: $3.85 Total: $523.44 Unitrax used all Timken bearings except one, of which only a Nissan would fit. The labor cost was fixed, so even if I had only wanted them to install the Quaife it would have still cost me $195.00. So it looks like my total cost including the Quaife was $1,486.10, plus $100.00 if you want to add the purchase of the used R200. At this point the Quaife discount really helped a lot. Well, I won’t know if it was all worth it until I get a chance to install the differential and try it out. But, from what I have heard I will not be disappointed. Ruben ’72 240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruben Posted October 13, 2001 Author Share Posted October 13, 2001 Tim, The Quaife is not a clutch type LSD, it is a worm gear style (Gleason, Torsen). So it also does not have any wearable "friction parts". But you're right it is still a chunk of cash. Ruben '72 240Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 That is quite a chunk of cash, although all of the internals are basically new now What are the pros and cons between the viscous type LSD (ie R230) and the friction type? From what I can gather, the viscous type doesn't have any wearable 'friction' parts? If that is true, what would the advantages be with the clutch type? I also heard somewhere that by changing the viscosity of the oil, the lockup characteristics of the LSD can be changed (with the viscous type). Do any of you guys have any details or opinions on this? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziceman Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 Hey guys nice thread discussion on LSD. Got a good one for you. I run a 260Z with 83ZXT engine intercooler etc in our local ice racing events. Imagine what happens when you throw a car sideways at 100mph and use the throttle to steer! We use a welded R180 with stock Nissan joints. I an looking at changing to CV joint soon after breaking both axles in the diff. I have been thinking of installing a LSD instead of the welded diff but have been concerned if it would hold up and allow us to throttle steer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 A clutch pack LSD would work, but I bet you would have to replace the clutches every year. I would probably stick with a welded diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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