EDIS new install, no spark? (can be an install guide)

[cygnusx1]

I am converting to EDIS from the 280ZX dizzy and working MSII.

 

When I crank the key, I get no spark from any of the coils. As soon as I start cranking the engine, the LED closest to the connector flashes three or four times and then goes out. I don't smell fuel so I don't think it's injecting either. Megatune indicates no RPM during crank, but is actively seeing all the other sensors, and does not reset. Another question. Where does MSII get it's timing for injection? Does the timing for injector pulse come from the PIP/SAW wires?

 

The module and VR sensor are from a junkyard....could be bad?

 

 

 

I followed the wiring diagrams as follows. (with exception to the coil) The dodge coil pinout is different as far as I can tell.

 

 

I double checked all my connections, traced all the wires again and it is hooked up just like that (minus the 25uf capacitor to ground). My VR sensor has about a 0.020" gap to the 36-1 wheel (I tried closer and further). PIP and SAW wires are connected to the proper pins on MSII. The sheilds are all connected to the correct pin on the module. I used 18g wires for most of it and 16g for the power and grounds.

 

I am using the MSII that I bought pre-assembled from DIY, which should have the circuitry already installed for EDIS/PIP-SAW to work.

 

In MegaTune, I set:

Trigger offset = 0°

Ignition Input Capture to 'Rising Edge'

Cranking Trigger to 'Calculated',

Coil Charging Scheme to 'EDIS',

Spark Output to 'Going High (Inverted)'

Predictor algorithm option to 'last interval'.

 

DO NOT set the missing tooth settings - the EDIS module takes care of the 36-1 wheel - MegaSquirt-II sees it as a regular distributor.

 

 

I opened up the MSII and made sure all of these were in place:

V3.0 main board:

DB37 pin #36 to the SAW pin (#3) on the ignition module

DB37 pin #24 to the PIP pin (#1) on the ignition module

On the V3.0 main board:

use the 'Hall sensor circuit' (step #50.a in the assembly guide) - jumper D1 and D2, <----assuming my unit was built from DIY like this. D1 D2 are each jumpered but not to eachother.

jumper OPTOIN to TACHSELECT on the bottom side of the PCB, near the DB37 connector, opposite the heat sink,

jumper TSEL to OPTOUT on the bottom side of the PCB, near the center.

jumper JS10 to IGN (this uses the processor port for the SAW signal directly),

jumper XG1 to XG2 on the bottom side of the PCB, near the 40 pin socket,

[cygnusx1]

This morning I disconnected MSII and powered the EDIS6 system from the battery directly. Still no spark.

 

Can I use the stock 280ZX coil in place of the six-pack to see if it will spark that coil? I am just at the point of swapping EDIS parts out to eliminate the problem. I need to hunt down a another module and VR sensor.

 

 

UPDATE:

Tried the 280ZX coil with no spark either. I cranked the car and set my voltmeter to AC and got 1.6 VAC from the VR sensor during cranking. Is that enough? I think it's supposed to be 5 to 10 VAC? Can anyone confirm this?

 

New question. Do the EDIS-6 module mounting tabs need to be grounded?

[Guest mafiaz]

allot of people switch the 2 wires for the vr sensor and voila spark

 

this is from what i read on hybrid

[cygnusx1]

Mafiaz, thanks, I tried that this morning after reading a few posts where polarity was a question. I flipped the wires but no spark. I think got the polarity correct the first time because I got the whole harness from ebay and kept the wires in color order.

 

I was also happy to find out that my VR sensor and trigger wheel mount are working. According to the data that BRAAP posted a while back I am right on target. With the air gap I have of about 0.020", I am generating 1.5-1.6 VAC from the VR during cranking. Seems good.

 

I am really beginning to believe that the $14 EDIS-6 module I was sold on ebay was a faulty unit. Wouldn't be the first time bad stuff was sold on ebay!

 

Not a total loss except for part of my Labor Day weekend trying to pull my hair out....if I had any hair left.

 

I went to the local auto parts store with the module and they wanted to sell me a replacement for a jolly good price of $375. I damn near fell on the floor laughing.

[WizardBlack]

LOL never show that you know what you are after or that it's anything special. They always jack the price up. Just go out and grab it and leave the wires rough-cut. Heck, smear a bit of mud on the box. LOL

 

To answer your question, the PIP/SAW is how EDIS and MS trade sync and timing info.

I am almost certain that the mount tab needs to be grounded.

Likewise, you are using shielded wire for PIP and SAW, yes? Not just a ground wire running next to it, but multistrand shield wiring completely covering the signal wire with the foil covering as well? Regular wire won't work.

[cygnusx1]

Oh yeah! Shielded the PIP/SAW pair and the VR Pair right up snug to the connectors. I also made sure I had no continuity between the sheild and anywhere it wasnt supposed to be. I am also using shielded for the three wires that go out to pull in the coils. Although the shield on those is not actually connected to anything.

 

I am now actually willing to bet I got a BUM module.....

[WizardBlack]

Oh yeah! Shielded the PIP/SAW pair and the VR Pair right up snug to the connectors. I also made sure I had no continuity between the sheild and anywhere it wasnt supposed to be. I am also using shielded for the three wires that go out to pull in the coils. Although the shield on those is not actually connected to anything.

 

I am now actually willing to bet I got a BUM module.....

 

You also, of course, only grounded the shield wires at one end? If so, it sure sounds like a junk module.

[cygnusx1]

Yup, only connected both shields to PIN 7 on the Module connector. Initially I had the EDIS powered off of the Fuel Pump relay which is controlled by MS. The problem is that the relay goes on for 2 seconds and then off until the engine starts cranking. It took me a few cranks to figure out that the fuel pump relay would not turn on after the initial key-ON. I have since wired it to the MAIN relay which is solid ON with the key. I even tried direct battery power to EDIS, to make sure the amp/volt was enough. All grounds are very solid.

 

I plan to hit up a Junk Yard today.

[cygnusx1]

Does the 25uf capacitor need to be on the 12v line for the coils to fire or is it just noise control?

[1 fast z]

The CAP is not needed to fire. I have never seen a bad module before, it usually ends up being something else, but it is possible.

[cygnusx1]

If it does turn out to be the module, I'll ship it to you so you can then say that you've seen a bad module!

 

Fingers crossed that I have a bad module. Everything else checks out. I get no outputs from the module at all during cranking. I tried to meter the negatives on the coil pack wires for any kind of signal with my fluke multi-meter. I got not a flicker on any settings. Not sure if that's a valid test but I am the end of the rope. I got power, ground, and a VR signal. Just no spark from the ZX coil or the dodge coil.

 

New module will be here this week.

[cygnusx1]

FINALLY! We have spark. I have no idea what happened. I swapped out the module for a NOS module and got no spark. I tried grounding the module mouting post. No spark. I re-scoped all the wires at the module pin. I could read ground, the coil, the VR sensor, and 12v at the pins. Then I decided to plug in ALL of the spark plug wires to the spark plugs. I only had one plug wire on for testing. No spark.

 

Then I decided to swap the two VR wires for the third time and BINGO! Spark.

 

Then I put in the old module and BINGO, spark. The NOS one is going back to ebay after a month or so.

 

You guys were right...the module was good.

 

Conclusion? No clue. The only things I did differently was to connect all plugs and wires, and swap the VR wires. BTW the module case does NOT need to be grounded.

 

Now I need to go figure out which coil fires when, to get the order correct. Clean up some wiring, and go play, ( :sing: ) "PIP-SAW-through-the-tu-lips." :icon43:

 

My theory on the VR sensor is that it depends on which whay it's mounted. + and - might swap depending on the direction that the wheel swings the magnetic field. No? Theory only.

 

 

 

Murphy's Law states: Your car will not run on nice sunny days. When you finally get it to run, they will be forecasting 5-8" of rain!

[cygnusx1]

OK it's working. Once I marked the pulley in three places at 120degrees apart, I figured out which coil fired when and got the wirng right on the second attempt. My advice, make a diagram.

 

MSII is PIPing and SAWing the timing around but I have a timing question for Matt or Moby or anybody that might know the answer.

 

new thread.

[Guest mafiaz]

good to hear you got spark i was right!

now my car is giving me the biggest head ache i think i want to go edis and ditch the dizzy

[cygnusx1]

OK I hooked the 280Z tach wire (no resistor) directly to PIN 2 on the EDIS module and the tach works, mostly.

 

When you start the car, it takes a few seconds for the tach to wake up. The tach also drops to zero suddenly whenever the RPMS drop below 1000. Once you rev up again, the tach wakes up, and works perfectly. I set my idle around 1000 so it pretty much keeps the tach awake. It seems that below 1000rpms the signal to the tach weakens too much.

 

 

I took the car for a quick spin, not too far from home, in case it quit. The car ran awesome! The exhaust smells much less, it revs silky smooth and I took it to about 4500rpms under boost. It seems to have a ton of top end. It seems to have a little more torque in the lower end and tons of smooth pulling power. Keep in mind that in addition to EDIS-6, I put on a solid P90A with a 5 angle valve job, a mild intake manifold and exhaust manifold port and match, and this head is 0.007" thinner than the previous one. The biggest thing I notice so far is SMOOTH power.

 

I still need to do more investigation on this:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=138328

[WizardBlack]

Awesome!

 

 

For other peeps searching, the VR wire thing is pretty common. I bought a good portion of BRAAP's setup and the two VR wires had to be switched just from his car (using same brackets, same VR sensor, diff module).

[flames_187]

Way To Go Dave...knew You Could Do It!

[cygnusx1]

It wasn't just switching the VR wires though. There is still a missing ingredient in my mind. I switched VR wires three times during testing. There is some combination of things that made it work. Bottom line is that if you follow all the directions here, it will work.

 

BTW here is the pinout for the 2000 Dodge Caravan Coilpack. This pack will use normal spark plug boots.

 

 

 

 

BONUS INFO!

The FORD EDIS-6 coil plug will fit directly into this coilpack if you hack it up with a saw and file or grinder. The pin configuration is identical and mates right up once you "reshape" the FORD Connector body. Of course you need to rewire it to match the pinouts.

 

 

I mounted the Coil Pack on the firewall near the heater hoses. I mounted the EDIS6 module, right where the original coil goes (drivers inner fender). This keeps the VR wires short, and since my MSII is under the drivers seat, it's a straight run back to MSII with the PIP/SAW wires. Also, the tachometer wire is right there near the old coil. Just take it off the old coil and tie it to PIN2 on EDIS.

[zbigtim]

I have used a coil pack from an earlier model Dodge Caravan which had a different connector. The coilpack lays out just the same except for the connector.

 

 

Tim

[cygnusx1]

Yes, there were two connectors they used. The newer ones were inline, the older ones were square. Since I could not find the pinout for the linear ones ANYWHERE on the web, I figured I would post it. I happened to end up with the newer style so I made due.