madmanadam Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Well, I just came in from the garage and called it a night. I was in the process of changing out my R180 with a R200 which I have had laying around for 4 years and thinking that the mustache bar that was with it was the correct one, not. The bar I thought was a R200 looks just like the R180. Now I'm thinking of just putting the R180 back in with the new bushings and fill it back up. How much should just a bar cost? This is all good though, found out that the rear was slaming into the parking brake stuff, little damage. Also noticed that the mustache bar rear bolts were loose, so this is all good. Must have tight, strong car I guess I'll look around for a R200 Mustache bar I just dont what to pay to much. All in all it has been fun, used a trany jack and had the rear off and out in less then hour and no damage to myself. time to shut off the mind and go watch mindless TV. Zya8ter Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Every rear end I have is R 200 and I do not know what it takes to swap 180 to 200 but on eBay a fellow from California is touting a R 200 stock swap parts kit with photos. (item # 1810563831)It appears that he believes there is more involved than just a m.bar from a R200 to do a 240 (R160-180 Z swap.I have all these R200 (1977 280 Z) parts to complete this swap. email me ljohnson@uswestmail.net I live in Oregon so shipping will not be big time and my price won't be big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zthang43 Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Hey, you're in Everett. Check out Farrell's junkyard up here in Mount Vernon. 424-4231 I was just over there last week and there are 3 or 4 Z's you could get a mustache bar from. I bought the whole rear end from them (struts, diff, axles, etc.) for $100, so I'm sure he would give it to you for $15-$20. They are good people there too, and won't try to cheat you. I always go there for Z parts. If you haven't been up this way before, it should take you about 45 minutes. If you want directions let me know. Oh by the way they close on Saturday at 2pm, and are closed sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zthang43 Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Oh yeah forgot to add; I did the same swap in my 74 260, and yes the mustache bars are different. It's worth doing though, especially since it is already apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 The swap is just the mustache bar on a 72-73 240, but it requires the rear curved crossmember and a driveshaft on a 70-71 car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 9, 2002 Author Share Posted March 9, 2002 Thanks, Looks like i might need more stuff. The strap looks like it has a rip. zthang43, All that stuff for 100 looks like I should just start all over. R200 that I have is a 3.54 Where about in Mount Vernon? Heating the garage right now (darn cold in there)so I can take another look at what damage I have done. Thanks again Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 9, 2002 Author Share Posted March 9, 2002 Well another issue, how hard is it to remove the pinion flange? I need to swap them so dont have to buy another flange. the R200 has the 2.0" flange. my drv line is set up with 2.25 flange. Is the nut on the flange reverse threads? According to the JTR book the M-bar/200 is all I need. Mike C, why do I need the rear curved crossmember? Just because it is stronger? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 The rear curved crossmember is to clear the differential cover plate. On the very early ('70 only I think) 240's, the differential was ~1" further forward, thus a straight crossmember worked, but with the differential moved rearward (to a much better location) 1" on all later models, then the crossmember needed to have a curve put in it to still clear the rear cover (because the this crossmember itself remained in the same location for all Z models). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 9, 2002 Author Share Posted March 9, 2002 Something is wierd, the parts I took off the car that had this R200 look the same as the R180 stuff. Could my R180 have the same set up as the R200? Here are some pics, http://www.geocities.com/madmanadam/Z-car/r200swap.html Just dont know, oh well I have to tell myself to slow down sometime so this is just another way telling me to. Time to clean parts and see what else need a fixen. Have fun I'm adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 Very odd. You have the "correct" lower transverse link (short piece that is curved, right behind the diff cover). But you're mustache bar is flipped the wrong way. The ring ends of the mustache bar should be forward. The mustache bar should almost touch the 2 uprights, which will be in front of it. The R200 bar is different because it has a slight curve to it. This pushes the diff forward about 1/2 inch. The R180 bar is straight. It is flipped the "wrong" way. As blueoval mentions the early cars had the diff mounted in an odd position too far forward. I think I'm confusing even myself with this supposed explanation. I have pics here: http://240z.jeromio.com/images/411rear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted March 9, 2002 Share Posted March 9, 2002 What Terry said on the curved crossmember. When I remove diff flanges on rear axles, I use my 30" Snap On breaker bar and a pipe wrench. Obviously put the socket on the bar and clamp the pipe wrench to the flange. Get a buddy to brace the housing/flange while you turn the breaker bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 For those truely desperate to break loose this nut, here is what I did in the garage one day. I used two bolts in the flange (but the pipe wrench would have probably worked better) Anyway, with the rear of the car up on a floor jack, I set up a breaker bar with a socket to hang about 45 degrees toward the drivers side, and then with another bar that was wedged between the bolts in the flange, I hung it at a 45 degree angle toward the passenger side. Then I lowered the car down with the floor jack until the floor made contact with both bars, then, let let the jack down all the way (thus making the floor force or spread the two bars apart). On the second "more agressive" attempt, the floor spread the bars and broke loose the nut. I did on the second attempt place a block over the top of the diff nose to keep the flexing down, and not bust the front mount (I had no compressor motor, and thus was thrown back into the stone age again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 10, 2002 Author Share Posted March 10, 2002 Got the flange nut off. I put the end with the nut in the vise and the other end on a stool, put 1/2 drive ratchet and a old tire jack stand/bar over the end of the ratchet pulled down and it came loose. The only problem is that a R180 flange spline is not the same as the R200. Did'nt know, until I took apart. Oh well Both the R180 & R200 mounts were broken. So I welded one up and made it soild. Can't be any worse than what I had. How do you get the control arms apart to change the bushings? Any help with this Thanks Adam http://www.geocities.com/madmanadam/Z-car/r200swap.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Do you ever get down around Eugene, Oregon? If you come this way in the near future, I will give you a R 200 with a round flange. I have 3 of them. Any body that is running into such bad luck on a rear end.... needs a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zthang43 Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Farrells junkyard in Mount Vernon is directly behind the Blade Chevrolet dealership. You can see Blade Chevrolet from the freeway. Get off at the College Way exit, hang a left on College Way at the bottom of the off ramp, then hang another left at the second light (the first light is to get back on the freeway again). Go until you see the chevy dealership on your right, and take a right immediately after the dealership. You can't miss the junkyard after that. To take the control arms off the struts, you have to remove the pin that connects the two. There is a nut on both ends of the pin, and there is a little lock bolt in the middle that has to be removed. these pins are about the hardest thing to take apart on a Z. If you use a hammer to try to pound it out, you will be very frustrated, and will have to buy new pins. I am selling a puller that I make for removing this pin; it makes the job much simpler and you can reuse the pins. If you're interested email me at zthang43@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zthang43 Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Oh yeah, if the strap is ripped at the front of the differential, I advise using the aircraft cable idea in the JTR manual, where you wrap it several times around the diff and front crossmember. I did this because I got mad at the strap and cut it off with wire clippers. It seems to be a much more positive reinforcement for the front mount anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 10, 2002 Author Share Posted March 10, 2002 Ok this might be silly but how do you take the control arms of the strut tower? Found that the diff mount was also broken,hum how could that had happen? This is what I'm doing putting it all back together with the R180, new mounts, bushings, new grease and and will just drive it easy until I can pick up all the stuff I need. I just dont want this car not drivable, when it is sunny I want to be driven. I was going to dyno the car next Friday, looks like I'm going to have to cancel. Gave up on trying to get the nut of the flange, my impact just wont do it. Any more help please Thanks adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 10, 2002 Author Share Posted March 10, 2002 Thanks, I just read that about the cable in the JTR book. I will probably will do that. The control arm is a bird. you have e-mail Thanks again Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 10, 2002 Share Posted March 10, 2002 Hey Adam, Haven't heard from you in years. I have pics on my website showing the differences between the R-180 and R-200, as well as how to perform the swap. I found the spindle pins to be a major bitch! I ended up using a Sawzall to cut the spindle pin from the control arms, heating the spindle to about 400 F, placing on an anvil, then driving out with a hardened 5/8" punch and 3lb sledge. Prior to this I had tried a puller method (pulled the threads off) and a press (without heat & did not work). Might as well plan on buying new pins, because they will be toast by the time you get them out. The control arm bushings are just about as fun! To remove these, I heated them up with until the rubber melted and the inner sleeve dropped out. Then, I cleaned the residue from the outer sleeve and made 4 or 5 axial welds on the inside of the sleeve. When the welds cooled, it effectively shrank the sleeve o.d. and made the press operation a cinch. Check out my site for help with R-200. Bregards, Brian Brian's Garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmanadam Posted March 11, 2002 Author Share Posted March 11, 2002 Been good, Thanks, Brian I check out your site, nice and helpful. That is what I did, took all the stuff out at once from a 77 280. But that was 4 years ago. Just might have stored the wrong mustache bar, and that is about 163 miles away,in the snow and I'm not sure it would be there. I have taken apart acouple of z's since I started my v8 transformation and they were both R180 . What I think I might do is just clean everything up make sure all is tight and bushings not falling out or cracked, put the car back together and enjoy this toy for a summer and do the total change this next winter after the new garage is built (I hope), long time awaiting. hope to get a hoist also. Thanks all for the input and help. The people on this site are great. Keep up the sharing. Smile to all and all a good Z Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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