Mikelly Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 OK, OK I know I'm being bad here, but really need a consencous here guys... I had 1 5/8 primary block huggers... They obviously were small for what I'm pushing. Short of long tube headers (DOn't want to lose ground clearance), what are the other viable options??? I'm leaning towards a Sanderson header, but don't want to make a decision without exhausting (Pardon the punn) all my options... Primary tubes MUST be 1 3/4 units for my application and I have straight plugs... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 Mike, have you considered talking to the guys at S&S? If you tell them what kind of ground clearance you need (and to have those collectors angled back), they might be able to help you or put one together for you that still "full length." Of course this could turn out to be a costly mistake if it doesn't work for some reason! The Sanderson units you are considering are headers or manifolds (like Long/dankinzle's)?? I have seen both Sanderson units and they are quality pieces--especially when Cermachromed, etc. Good luck! David By the way, you get 1000 lashes with a wet noodle for bringing up this topic again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 http://www.rewarderheaders.com/ 1-3/4s block huggers $310US coated, you can testfit/alter before coating and send them back for coating if you wish.....have to measure mine up shortly for my set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 Mike: Davy's got a point. Sanderson's got an 1-800 number and their techs are quite knowledgeable. When I talked to them(several times), it seems that application, rpm range and engine size are the key factors regarding header sizing. I told them my idea of building a sbc 427 and asked what would be the best hdr size. The feedback was interesting. If your application is racing or high rpm output(6000rpm++), then 1 3/4" or even 1 7/8"(if your pushing 7500rpm)hdrs are needed. If your application is street(up to 5500-6000rpm), then even 1 5/8" may be adequate! All the techs I talked to stated that the muffler(s) is usually the bottle neck or the biggest flow inhibitor of all the exhaust components. They've got a very good tech summary with graphs showing low rpm(below 5500rpm)and high rpm(above 5500rpm)applications using a particular sized hdr with a particular engine displacement. The smaller hdr actually delivers more low end torque and HP than the next size up! Whereas, the next size up delivers better top end T and HP than the smaller size. Check out their website www.sandersonheaders.com Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 31, 2001 Share Posted May 31, 2001 There are alot of analogies to the recent discussion of single versus dual plane manifolds and this primary size discussion - the engine is a pump and restrictions really only begin to show up when you're trying to move lots of air/gasses - and too big a cross section will hurt the dynamics of the valves opening and closing, scavenging (or induction). I think that makes sense... If you're not going to be turning the big rpms with large cubes, the bigger primaries won't be really needed up top if you don't really rpm the engine, but will hurt scavenging. ...But Mike's application is more race than street, as he's going for high speed events, etc. And their comment about mufflers lines up with my thinking - if you're going to muffle the car, any gains up top in rpm with 1-3/4" or bigger primaries probably won't be realized. Of course, Mike might want to uncork the exhaust for those high speed runs, so they might be worth it! I guess 3 inch or more duals, few slight mandrel bends, and race mufflers might not hurt the top end much, but at that point it's not too streetable anyway, IMO. Compromises, compromises . Of course, I'm probably confused again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 I guess what I don't liek most baout the smaller headers is that there's a STEP coming out from the port into the header - yuck! I wanted to go bigger but the prices are pretty high and there's no way for me to know how well it would fit short of plunging in. I'll be interested to hear how Mike's new headers fit as there could be an upgrade in my future too one of these days. It'll surely help others who come after us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 Heh - how about a set of custom "stepped primary" blockhuggers . Just kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 Mike, if I remember right...you were at about 500hp before? Are you saying 1 5/8 was too small for that? The Sanderson page has a big section on that... Obviously with your newer, sicker motor, yeah, 1 3/4 is needed. I do like the Sanderson manifold/header deal, cast aluminum weighs about as much as block hugger headers, too.. But you knew that.. I'm going to be building a 500hp 383 for my Z, and am very tossed up between 1 5/8 and 1 3/4... What size carb did you have on the old motor? 750pumper? Thanks.. beat me with a wet noodle too, for asking questions that have surely been asked 1,000,000 times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 Mike, check out the Sanderson CC134 - nice 1-3/4" primary, 3" collector block hugger. Available for straight and angle plug heads. Ouch, list for $285 uncoated! I'd get them uncoated, test fit, "tweak", then coat them. Of course, they offer custom services if your really want long tubes. Not sure it's worth it if you're using full exhaust and mufflers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dankinzle Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 I'd be careful about the CC134. Says it sticks out 4.5" which seems pretty close on passenger's side IMO. I was thinking about those until I got out a ruler. What do you mean by a step w/ the smaller headers? like a step down? The ones I have fit pretty nicely at the flange and the actually step up to 1 3/4. BTW, just put my engine in today and they headers couldn't fit any better. The hooker's from before were close, the new qp1000 fit with plenty of room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted June 1, 2001 Author Share Posted June 1, 2001 DanK, I missed something here...Which brand did you use? Hell if the fit is that good, and you have already done the teast fitting.... Are your plugs straight or Angle??? Pete and Others, the research I have done on small blocks running the open road points to using ATLEAST 1 3/4 if not 1 7/8 units. Most of my run would be in the 6000+ Range, and my assembly was built to spin to 7200. I had no intention to spin it that high, but it certainly can with little effort... I'm not gonna go 1 7/8 because I too feel that it would be to large, but if I can get 1 3/4 units.... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fast Frog Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 DanK: I'll ditto Mikelly. What brand and size are you using?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 DanK's talking S&S still, 1.5" cast primary manifolds, sweet looking units the rodders enjoy coating all sorts of colours. http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=SDH-QP1000 Full S&S listings here http://www.centuryperformance.com/sanderson/apps.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dankinzle Posted June 1, 2001 Share Posted June 1, 2001 I'm talking about the sanderson qp1000 cast headers. You can prob find a link to them off the sanderson web site. I have angle plugs. I also took a couple pics a while back, and you can look at those at http://www.geocities.com/mandryd/qp1000.html . Those are w/ the engine out of the car though they just kinda show how close they fit to the engine. I'd post some pictures of it in the engine bay, but I lost teh cord for my digicam. The headers fit the exhaust ports pretty well (dart II heads), and if you look inside them, have little steps that sanderson says ends up being 1 3/4" primaries. I don't remember exactly how close it was to the steering shaft, but I remember it had a nice cushion of space, i'll look again today. Plus my engine seems a little bit more forward too (like in the slots on the crossmember it sits almost all the way forward). So if you're further back it'll fit even better. [ June 01, 2001: Message edited by: dankinzle ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Mike, have you considered calling Extrudehone and having them bored and coated a friend did this on his toyota celica and it made a HUGE difference. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Hi Mikelly I send you some pictures of my new header from S&S header Part# 5205 1 3/4 primaries and 3" collector full length for $256.25. Shipping was $24.24, they are uncoated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Has anyone tried the 1 3/4" headers from motorsports? i know they are full length with 3" collectors, but havent heard about how they clear and what they do for ground clearance. just thought id ask since everyone seems to talk about the sanderson and S&S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 I could be wrong here, but I think MSA just resells S&S units... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsumner Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 mike, Have you checked out the hedders by Ed web site? They have do it yourself parts, and info on how to design your own. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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