Will my CAR be slow Please Advise?

[Datsun660z]

I was told today by a guy with a 1999 Ford Mustang that my car engine combo will be slow Im just wondering if he is jealous

or am I nuts? as I've stated in an earlier post that my engine is a Chevy small block 400 but I didn't mention any Specs. Well it

is board 30 over it has .150 domed hypereutectic pistons from Sterling, the heads are " Cast iron Not " I dont know why I typed that. They Are ALUMINUM. 64 cc's with 2.02 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves, the cam is a Crane 100072 With 284 advertised duration 112 degree lobe separation and lift is 480 at the valves with a 1.5 rocker arm ratio, the crank is 3.75 inch stroke forged 400 sbc crank, 5.7 inch Rods, The Intake manifold Is a Weiand Stealth, The carburetor is a Holley 3310-s 750 CFM dual feed single pump with vacuum secondaries. I sure hope this engine runs well. I also ended up buying a B&M 700R4 Transmission with stage 2 shifting instead of using my B&M TH-350

"Sold That One Quick". Thank You for any input. Allmost forgot to metion the car. 1976 Datsun 280-Z No rust AT ALL.

 

Jon Peterson W7blu@yahoo.com

 

[ April 30, 2001: Message edited by: Datsun660Z ]

 

[ May 01, 2001: Message edited by: Datsun660Z ]

 

[ May 02, 2001: Message edited by: Datsun660Z ]

[Guest Anonymous]

That car might be slow to some standards(pure drag cars maybe), but not anyone here. Your car will be a good solid car. The guy you talked to is just jealous, because you will blow him out of the water. If you give those specs to a member on here by the name of Kevin Shastsen(Sorry kevin, i know I butchered your last name) he will print you up some specs of your 1/4, 1/8 etc times. Some other guys can do it as well. I wouldn't consider your car slow. This is just my .02

 

Sean

[Andrew Bayley]

Unless this Mustang owner just happens to go by the name "John Force", I have a pretty good feeling that you will be Molly-Maiding his little old fox body (molly maid = clean house).

 

I must warn you, this type of criticism is normal. Because the V8-Z has such a small following, (in comparison to F-bodies or Mustanks) us Hybrid's are forced to use common sense and practical designs and innovations. I have yet to find this much creativity with any other car group. I also find that with larger groups, there tends to be a sort of "mass concensus" meaning that if the majority of people say it's true, than it must actually be true. Example: solid upper control arm bushings = good thing in a Mustang

 

This could be why your friend with the Rustang thinks your Z will be slow... because the majority of people out there know nothing about it!!!

 

Take pride in your project. Tell your Furd owning friend that he is right, and that nothing will beat his Mustang. Once you are finished with your "slow" Z car, ask your friend if he wants to line-em-up. I can guarantee his opinion will immediately change.

 

Good Luck

 

-Andy

[Kevin Shasteen]

Well, I'll try to live up to Sean's expectations...thanks for the vote of confidence & good to see you back on the board-been wondering where you've been; have you resolved your cracked cyl.head situation?

 

This engine in question (the 406) incorporates the Stealth manifold which is a High Rise Dual Plane from Weiand & good upto 6000rpms gauranteed-the undercaptions on that manifold claim upto 6800rpms w/an agressive valve train. Your camshaft you chose is considered by many as the camshaft for bracket racers meaning your peak torque/power is gonna be somewhere in that 4500-6000 range-where you need it as you're tripping the 1/4mile traps. Your dome pistons w/the small chamber heads is definately gonna boost your compression! While your B&M 700 is gonna lay waist to just about any of your competitors, unless they're in the Space shuttle & operate at light speed (but I dont think you have to worry about that). Some say a Stall Converter should be used/but the Z's are so light, a couple people "BLKMGK" particulary, had bud luck w/a stall cvtr in his previous Z & removed it only to discover his car performed better off the line; Just FYI.

 

Your Moosetang friend is talking smack & obviously doesnt understand mechanics or as said earlier-is just plain jealous! Your car is lighter than his, will have more cubes & put out more HP/torque...you've got him on the ropes & he's too ignorant to know when to throw in the towel!

 

Your engine is gonna have plenty of power & idle decently w/your 112 Lobe Separation Angle....112 is better for a street driven engine than 110 or 108 which leans more towards a strip only engine. Dependant upon how heavy of a foot you have your engine should live to the 100k mile range.

 

You've got a healthy H/O engine in the makings; your ride is gonna be anything but slow and you will notice a distinct improvement in power compared to a stock 400.

 

As for actual hp/ET expectations-need more info; car weight, rear gears, tire size, what heads are you actually using/has your engine builder (or have you) determined what your final compression ratio "Static Comp.Ratio" will be?

 

Hope this helps to relieve your "Slow Car Blues"; remember-Enemy Hot Rodders are always playing mind games on each other; regardless if their mind games are intentional or imagined/ignorant...they're still mind games.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

 

[ May 01, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ]

[Guest Anonymous]

Andy's totally right. Just line em up when yours is broken in and you'll teach that rustang guy some manners.

Honestly, I don't see how it could be slow, I very recently put just a very stock 350/6sp in my 240z and while compared to some examples in this group it might not be all that, but by my own butt dyno pretty damn quick. I run the stealth as well, good manifold, you have way more cam, more cubes, more compression, more carb, only slightly more weight on the 280. Dude it will fly. Line em up if your friend has the stones to do it, and then be prepared to help him find his doors when they get blown off. Best of luck.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[fl327]

youll KILL that mustang! i run a edelbrock performer cam and manifold with stock camel hump heads and a holley dp 650. i have had better races with some of the civics and mr2's out here than with the mustangs, especially the 4.6's. your motor sounds a lot more vicious than mine does, you should pound that guy off the gate, and grab lengths on him in the gears,

"break it in, and break him off!"

[Datsun660z]

quote:

---

As for actual hp/ET expectations-need more info; car weight, rear gears, tire size, what heads are you actually using/has your engine builder (or have you) determined what

your final compression ratio "Static-comp.Ratio" will be?

---

Here you go Kevin Shasteen. The weight of the car should be about 2925 pounds. From what I can figur out the rear gears are 3.70:1 Tires on the street will be 205 40 17" at the track they will be

205 60 14". The heads are Trick Flow 23 degree aluminum 64cc chambers 2.02 and 1.60 valves 195cc intake runners. And the compression ratio is 12.3:1 Thank You Jon Peterson w7blu@yahoo.com

[DavyZ]

The others have said it all, but I want my turn too, and it goes something like this:

 

After cleaning the Mudstain's clock and kicking his can all over the place, you will take all of his cash, provided of course that he has the cajones to put some CHC where his mouth is...oh yeah, he'll be sorry for shooting off his mouth...

[Guest Anonymous]

12.3:1 How do you guys in the States run that high? Even the latest Premium Unleaded over here in Oz is only 9.8 Octane.

[Datsun660z]

richard

quote

12.3:1 How do you guys in the States run that high? Even the latest Premium Unleaded over here in Oz is only 9.8 Octane.

My engine builder Street Rodding Brother Inlaw SAYS I will run Just fine On premium unleaded with my Holley water injection Thank You Jon Peterson W7blu@yahoo.com

[Guest Fast Frog]

660:

 

If you want to get an idea of how your car will perform, purchase Dyno 2000 and enter the specs of your car into the engine dyno simulation. Then purchase Drag 2000 and transfer your engine from Dyno 2000 into the drag simulation and build the rest of your car to complete the drag simulation. These simulations are within 3-5% of actual. Just remember, don't lie to it! Be as honest as possible when entering your data! JEGs, and other mail order outlets sell these desktop computer simulations.

 

[ May 02, 2001: Message edited by: Fast Frog ]

[Kevin Shasteen]

Jon,

 

Your set up I'm bettin is gonna put you somewhere in the 420-450hp range. For my calculations I'm using the 420 RWHP range. We can figure low & hope for higher #'s.

 

Anyway; going w/the 420hp range w/a 15% loss in power to the ground you can expect @ 360 RWHP.

 

Your tire combo's yield a diameter:

1)205/40/17 = 23.4" Tire Diameter

2)205/60/14 = 23.6" Tire Diameter

 

With a vehicle that weighs 2925lbs & 360 RWHP you can expect a 1/4mile trip to get you 11.7 @ 116mph...depending on your tire spin & track conditions.

 

Your rpm's for the 116mph would put you in the neighborhood of:

1)23.4" Tires = 6162rpms

2)23.6" Tires = 6110rpms

 

Depending upon what you feel safe regarding your redline...your speed at a certain rpm should be:

 

1)23.4" Tires

a)5000rpm = 94.11mph

b)5500rpm = 103.52mph

c)6000rpm = 112.91mph

 

2)23.6" Tires

a)5000rpm = 94.91mph

b)5500rpm = 104.40mph

c)6000rpm = 113.89mph

 

Hope that helps you w/a basis to go on; or expectations to go from(?) depending upon your persepctive.

 

Hope you can get away w/your high compression-even if you're using the water injection; sounds like fun.

 

Kevin,

(Yea,Still an Inliner)

 

[ May 02, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ]

[Guest Fast Frog]

660:

 

Lets talk weight for the moment cause performance is a product of power and weight (velocity = mass X acceleration).

 

Your car is a 76 280z(same as mine). If your loose those ugly heavy bumpers and the mounting hardware, you'll drop 110+ lbs. If you drive without the spare tire and jack you'll drop another 50-55 lbs. If you go with alloy wheels, you'll loose another 5+ lbs per wheel or another 20 lbs. All totalled, that's 180 lbs+/- that you'll loose from the wt of the car!

 

The stock 76Z(with manual tranny)weighed around 2775-2800 lbs stock. Subtract 180 lbs and your Z now weighs 2625+/- lbs. If you use as many aluminum components as possible with your V8 conversion, you should only gain 20-25 lbs in wt!! My 76Z, when it was turbocharged, weighed 2640 lbs. With the 383 V8 and alum hds and intake manifold, it now weighs 2650 lbs!! I could still loose another 15-20 lbs by using an alum water pump and an alum radiator!!

 

The point being that your car could weigh in the low 2600 lbs range which is 600-800 lbs less than that heavy wt mudstain road rock! With much lighter wt and considerably more power, you'll pass him like he was just a rock in the road!

 

Good luck!

[patzky1]

a little fuel for the fire in the previous reply: chevys are the ones said to be like a rock.

[Guest needwaymorespeed]

how about some mopre info on that holley water injection?? is it an old unit or brand new-ie are they making them now and how is it controlled?

thanks

Curtis

[Datsun660z]

quote:

---

Originally posted by needwaymorespeed:

how about some mopre info on that holley water injection?? is it an old unit or brand new-ie are they making them now and how is it controlled?

thanks

Curtis

---

 

Sorry it is a unit from Holley that they no longer make Mine is new and unused in the box and I don't know how it works yet I havent broken the seal on the box to read the instructions. when i get to the point that I install the injection in the car I will share the information with you but in the mean time I don't want to lose any thing out of the box. Thank You Jon Peterson W7BLU@yahoo.com

[BLKMGK]

Hrm, is this a Cobra you're going up against? Heavily modifed? It will need ot be in order to beat a Z packing close to 800lbs less weight an running 400+ HP! Don't ge tme wrong, with the righ tmods that Cobra will scream but... My friend's shop has turned out some seriously fast cobras and even a couple of really nice GTs but without a full exhaust, gears in the 4 range he's not going to stand a chance. For that matter - he may need NOS or a blower. Blowers on a well built Cobra (they bend rods if boosted too high) will make over 600HP but I'm betting this guy is running a GT that's pretty stock. If so I'll bet it's first car short of a Honda and he thinks it's God's gift - he'll be in for a serious surprise! For fun, slap a bottle on yours just in case - can you say sick power?

 

Just remember guys, not all Mustangs are slow and h emodified ones are flat out nasty but you don't find them that often and when you do they spent tons more than we did! Around here they tend to be a little thicker since we've got a shop or two wrenching on them full time but... I'm looking forwad to seeing how they fare against my Z when it's done too

[Guest Anonymous]

Yeah, I guess you just have to carry a bottle of whoopass around just in case...

 

 

Lone

[DavyZ]

I like those "sneaky-pete" cheater systems that have those less conspicuous bottles and are easier to hide. That way, if anyone asks, "What's that?" you can say, "That's just a long fire extinguisher!"

 

David

[BLKMGK]

2 things - I've yet to run a V8 Z so I'm not sure who Kevin was talking about concerning torque converters.

 

2nd - Sneaky Pete systems are cool but in order to run them you're supposed to jet up the carb -it's a NOS only system and not good for much HP. I'd be worried about going lean! There's a company, Nitrous Express I think, that a friend deals with. They sella system known as "bottle in a bag" and that's exactly what it is. Gym bag with a bottle in it! Cheap cheap and sneaky but for EFI and is NOS only that I thnk is supposed to be sprayed in front of a MAF meter. (shrug)

 

Lot's of ways to disguise NOS and long line runs will soften the hit which could also be a good thing when you hide the solenoids. Reading the specs up above closer - I'm thinking he's not going to be needing NOS.

 

Give us some specs on the Mustang please, if it's a GT this ought to be a race to die for, you'll squash him flat unless he's had massive work done. I pity the fool......