Oddmanout84 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Now here's an interesting question I've been putting off for a while. If anyone has read my thread, you already know that I'm having electrical problems with my EFI system, and I've been chasing the gremlins for quite some time. The car is a 1978 280Z. During my search, I came across the Ignition relay in the FSM (which is located on the relay bracket under the dash on the passenger side) and sought to diagnose its condition. While taking it apart, the ground which is connected from the plastic backing to the metal case broke. Through some frustrating soldering, I was able to reattach a wire to make a new, temporary ground to the metal case. Of course, this is a temporary fix, and I'd hardly say the job I've done will allow for reliable long term operation. So I've been seeking a new one. Funny thing is, none of the auto parts suppliers seem to carry them, and I haven't even been able to source one on ebay! This is what it look like; and internally; Sorry for the uncharacteristically crummy photo quality, it was a bit dark. As you can see, it is a 6 bladed terminal with two internal switches. You may even see the hack-job green wire I made into a ground. Honestly, I can't say if it works. Sometimes the relay clicks when I turn the key, others it doesn't. Since the ground is really crummy, voltage may not be passing through at all. I've called Levine's, talked to Autozone, ordered relays from Rockauto and Auto parts warehouse. They have just about every other relay in the car, but not this one. No one can match the part number to anything on their database. The shape of the EFI relay is almost identical, but its a 5 bladed terminal. The only 6 bladed relays they have display the terminals in varying patterns (some blades perpendicular to others). So far, I have not come across any relay like these 6-bladers in the car, even if their websites match them to my vehicle. And yes, I've looked through these forums several times within the past few months and found nothing really of use. Since I'm unable to source one, my question is more along the lines of, can a similar 6 bladed relay be used? If so, how would one go about wiring it correctly? I'm not about to buy a new $70 relay just to crack it open and break another ground, lol. Any info is useful, and I'm sure if we can find any answers to this problem, others having the same trouble will benefit. Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 examine that relay closely, and determine the pin connections. Then you can use any relay, or even two relays, as that one seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 +1, I was going to suggest the same thing. six wires: common ground, common power source, two signals, two outputs. Probably, anyhow; study the wiring schematic for the car and that should tell you how to rig something more generic into place. (pair of four prong bosch relays, anyone?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 There's an idea. It just seems strange that they would decide to keep good stock (or keep producing) the other relays, but not this one. So far its the only one that no parts store offers a direct replacement for. I'll look into fixing something up. If my frankenrelay works, I'll be sure to post the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxTechZ Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Check out Rock Auto http://ww.rockauto.com Then choose: make, year, model, electrical switches & relays, then fuel injection relay. Runs around $68+/-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Shoot me a PM with your email and I can send you a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Check out Rock Auto http://ww.rockauto.comThen choose: make, year, model, electrical switches & relays, then fuel injection relay. Runs around $68+/-. Well, I did check out Rock Auto some time ago, in fact I bought several relays off of them. The only years that display a "Fuel Injection Relay" tab are 75-77, and all of them display the same relay that has a terminal pattern inconsistent with what in installed in my car. 1978 has no tab for fuel injection relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darom Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 If you still need one, send me the relay number printed on its side to simzealot at gmail dot com. I might have a used one. We can work something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Tried my "last" resort today, the local Nissan dealership, because I was in the area. They had the part number in their system, and were able to order it from their warehouse. Go figure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Ok, here goes. I recieved my *new* '78 280Z ignition relay yesterday. No wonder I couldn't find these before! The part number has changed! Luckily, since I ordered it from Nissan, their system took the old part number (PN: 25230-89958) and redirected to the new part No.! Looks like Nissan did a sort of dynamic component upgrade for that old relay. This is the box with the new part number on it; And here is the new relay ASSEMBLY; As you can see, the one six blade relay has been spit into two. I'm by no means an expert when it comes to electrical systems, in fact I'd say its my weakest point. But from what I can tell from my limited knowledge it seems that this relay (and the old original one) did NOT share a common power, only a common ground. On the old unit, the ground was self contained within the relay and connected to the outer metal case. This new one, as you can see, has a black jumper wire connecting the two relays which then leads out to an actual ground wire with an eye. The cases of the relays are made out of hard plastic, which is obviously why they went this way. I think I prefer this design better, as my previous relay lost its ground due to internal corrosion on the case. I'll be plugging this in later to make absolutely sure that it works just like the original, which I'm pretty sure it will do. Hopefully anyone else having problems with their old ign relay will benefit from this. I know this isn't as exciting as me finding some way to Macgyver a new solution, but this option is much more plug and play, and probably reliable in the long run. The relay assy is priced at almost $60 from Nissan, which is by no means cheap, but still pretty average for a relay switch. Not a terrible deal, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Please refresh my memory/clarify: is this a part for a 78 only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 I'm not absolutely sure. If the pre-'78 280Z's have the same stock 6 bladed relay that I showed in the first post (with matching art number), then I would say so. However, I have never worked on any 280Z besides a 78, so I'm not positive. If I remember correctly, the small, blurry diagrams in my Haynes manual showed a different relay layout for pre-'78 models under the passenger side dash (above the fusebox) where this ign relay was located. Sorry I can't provide a more lucid answer, but my knowledge of working on these cars is limited to my '78, and small blurry illustrations from manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Naw, you answered perfectly.. I just tried to bone up some, but couldn't find a 78 diagram handy. looking at a 77 I find a six prong ignition relay, but looking at the factory PDF for my 75 there is, instead, a dual 6 prong connector for an ignition interlock system. Yay. I REALLY wish I could find someone who understood the ins and outs of that and could explain it to me.. the ignition interlock system needs to be fully removed from my car because I am pretty certain a PO did a hackjob removal and that is what caused my initial electrical problem... So in short, I think that relay is most certainly NOT on my 75. It wouldn't be the first time Nissan had superseded a faulty relay with a superior product though; the headlight relays on the roadster (originally) were AWFULY but at some point in the 70s (according to my uncle) they stopped supplying the original ones and superseded them with newer tech that was INFINITELY better.. Look at the external Voltage Regulators, too (but of course thats more than just Nissan doing it there..) Interesting.. I hate finding differences between model years like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darom Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have the same relay on my '76. When I bought the car, I posted similar question. Here is my old post on classiczcars: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30701 showing exactly the same relay as oddman's nissan part. Originally I thought that the previous owner rigged some up, something unique and non-reproducable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Interesting.. I hate finding differences between model years like this. Yeah, its not too bad in the aviation field because you usually get updated paperwork that replaces the old info in the manuals when a change occurs. From what I've seen here, not so much. But then again, I'm pretty sure its because our manuals don't update like Nissan's do over in their shops. I bet they have all sorts of documentation (somewhere) that details the little dynamic component upgrades that have occured on their cars. Its just a little bit harder for us to get our hands on them. Man, I need to find an inside man, lol. Maybe I should go over to the Nissan dealership and try to make friends with some mechs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmanout84 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Daeron: Here is a picture of the exact location of my ign relay. Yours, being an older model, may be different if I remember. Mine is nestled in near the horn relay and intermittent wiper relays, just above my fuse panel on the passenger side and below the dash. Keep in mind this is a '78 California model as well, but I don't think that affected the relays' positions, just the amount. I'm trying to point to the relay bracket with the beef stick, its a little off though. The garage was too dark, so I took this picture with a flashlight in my mouth aimed at the area in question, all while trying to point the beef stick at the location while trying to aim my SLR through the eyepiece at the area so it would autofocus. I was a bit overwhelmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4.6StangRage Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Hmmm, I know this is old but I am curious about wiring standard 5 pin relays instead of the factory harness? Has anyone done this because I was thinking of tinkering around with the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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