header or turbo?

[Mobious5]

I put an 82 Turbo motor into my 1980 and tried to adapt the stock harness and gave up. I then went to MSII and that was much easier to install and get started/running! I entered in some basic info I got off this site into MSII and it started on my first try! I may have gotten lucky but when I look back it was so much easier to install MS than people make it out to be.

 

so you just said screw the stock harness, deleted it, and installed MSII and went from there right? Nice

[Gollum]

A header won't do anything substantial. In fact there's some evidence that headers on the earlier 240Z engine can actually REDUCE your average power depending on your setup. You can't just do a single mod to an NA engine and expect a ton of power.

 

If you have the money, get MS and get it running on your car. That alone might actually make a good 5-15hp difference. The stock tuning isn't "close to the edge" at all, and if it ever pings it's usually due to the mix going lean, not reaching max advance for a given RPM/MAP/Mixture value.

 

Once you know the MS well and have tuned several tables and feel like you're reaching the limit of tuning (getting great economy and not finding any more power to gain at any point) then you can start on the turbo conversion.

 

I've said this before on this board, and most of the guys actually doing serious engine builds with the L series agree with this statement.

 

The stock NA and stock turbo pistons have nearly identical HP limits

 

What this means that you can run 300hp safely on the stock NA pistons. It doesn't matter if that's at 7psi with head work, or at 20psi. The accepted limit that starts getting hairy with the stock pistons is around 400hp, but most with NA pistons haven't dared venture into the land of the unknown out there.

 

The benefit is that the NA pistons have better quench (reduces knock due to accelerating the mixture) and due to the higher compression (still low by modern standards) it will spool quicker and have more power off boost.

 

I'd also recommend searched the coolant head mods on this site. I think that if you're going to be going for the limits, or running low octane gas then you need to look into the head cooling issues these heads tend to have. It's not that they get too hot, but rather have hot spots which can cause you to ping long before you've really reached the limit.

 

 

All that said, here's the order of events I'd recommend:

 

Get MS - install it

Upgrade any sensors you desire, since you now can. Maybe install edis if you want.

Buy turbo conversion parts:

-Manifold

-Turbo

-Oil Pan

-Injectors

-Down pipe

 

There's lots of other parts you're going to need if you don't MS first, in order to get the stock turbo ECU to work, hence why buying MS actually simplifies everything.

 

On stock wastegate pressure you're probably looking at putting around 200hp to the wheels, which is darn scary to jump to from stock NA.

 

Add:

-Intercooler

-Manual Boost controller

-Fuel Pressure Regulator

 

And now you can run up to 12psi easily. By boosting fuel to around 55psi you should have enough fuel overhead for that power level on the stock turbo injectors. At this point you'll probably have over 250 wheel HP. Once you reach 300hp (might require larger fuel injectors, or a second fuel pump and insanely high pressure) you've pretty much started hitting some hard limits to defeat in regards to the intake design, head flow, etc. At this point I'd highly recommend doing the head coolant mod if you haven't already, and possibly having a custom intake made. I'd go external wastegate, and upgrade to a higher flowing turbo, even if it's just a T3/T4. Upgrading the cam might have a small improvement, but having the head ported by someone with experience with these motors will have a much greater improvement.

 

But now I've mentioned enough to get you into piston melting realm, and it's not just "casual" at this point. It's my personal belief that unless you're in love with these engines this is where you should have stopped already. There's much cheaper power out there in other engines. The turbo L series is great for a budget 250 horse engine, maybe 300 too. But beyond that.... the LSx can make 400hp for far less imo.

 

 

Oh, and one clarification. Someone said to upgrade the fuel pump to the turbo one. I used to think the were different, but they actually share the same part number. Though I'm comparing the 81' NA to the turbo, which has the P79 head, so I don't know if the 79-80 has a different pump.

 

My 75' is pushing AT LEAST 170 to the wheels on 7psi and I've been running the stock 280Z pump... SCARY!!! I'm actually going to be adding a second pump (280ZX pump) to the system soon, then I'll never have to worry about fuel supply at my power goals.

[Mobious5]

... for i was blind, now i can see and to be quiet honest i feel pumped

 

after a response like that theres not much you can ask. Now knowing that theres not much difference between the na and turbo pistions, im going to unleash hell on that engine, within a 19 year okd means of course.

 

Gollum, there is one thing, you mentioned installing edis6 but not having to as a requirment. If i werent going to [not saying that in not] but if i wasnt, how would i was MS with the na dizzy? i did read about a guy welding a plate in the dizzy and removing the vacume control valve in there then locking it. but that seems to risky...?

any options

thanks this is starting to sound too easy. megasquirt,turbo,then tune.. na

[FlatBlack]

 

Haha once you fully comprehend what is invovled with Megasquirt alone you will look back on this post and laugh.

 

Keep reading buddy it'll be worth it in the end!! [i'm hoping to start mine by the summer]

[Gollum]

If you can find a stock turbo dizzy you can use it with MS iirc. I know there's plenty of people that have installed MS without ignition control and just worked around the stock timings.

 

You can do edis pretty cheap though. Braap even got EDIS working with 2 saw blades half a tooth apart in phase!!! I'm seriously thinking about doing that if I ever go EDIS with MS, just for the garage DIY wow factor. Saw blades on the crank pulley! The EDIS module is pretty inexpensive, and can be found at junkyards. The coils might be the most expensive part, so that leaves the coil packs to be the most expensive part, but luckily they last a LONG time, so if you find some at the yard pull em'!

[Mobious5]

thanks, yep im pretty sure i'll look back on all this and be like, man wtf.

 

Saw blades... that guy BRAAP* is a monster. someone had there thinking cap on. Im going to put mind on and ask another stupid question...

you guys are right EDIS is pretty cheap, esp. on ebay.

That gear like disk that comes with EDIS is the crank angle sensor right? its positiond on the crank and when it turns, it sends a signal to the modual then the coils then the car starts right? Soo the benifit of hooking up MS to the dizzy though a turbo one or EDIS is that you might be able to adjust the timing or atleast view it. right? oh and maybe the spark.

 

Anyone no any good walkthroughs on installing EDIS6?

thanks

[Gollum]

The MS overview sticky on this very site covers a brief stint on installing EDIS.

 

The main benefit is that there's no more cap and rotor to wear out, throw things off, etc. EDIS is much more stable and is in many ways friendlier with aftermarket EFI systems because it doesn't have any natural advance.

 

There's a trigger wheel you put on your crank.

A sensor follows the teeth and sends the signal to the EDIS module.

The Megasquirt takes a signal from the module and then tells the coils when to fire.