CV's and R200 LSD swap questions >>>>

[Guest Anonymous]

Help me out here guys.

 

Parts I have:

 

R200 LSD from '87 Turbo (I have a regular R200 Cover bolted on, no finned cover)

R200 CV Shafts from '83 Turbo ZX

R200 Mustache Bar from '78z

 

Parts I need:

CV adaptor (Ordering from Ross this week)

280z Companion flange's

 

What I am unsure about are the companion flanges. My car is an early 260Z. Is the companion flange the part that the old halfshafts bolt on to right behind the strut? If that is it, how do I change them if mine need to be swapped?

 

How can I tell if I have the correct flanges. What's the size?

 

I have all the drum "stuff" removed to install rear disc's (also Ross's) so I can get at them easily.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help me out here!

 

Regards,

 

Tom

[BRAD D]

The companion flange is the part that has splines and bolts up to the stub axle with I big bolt. And bolts up to the half shaft with four smaller bolts.

 

I think you will need 280Z stub shafts as well. Because the splined part is bigger, there for the 280Z companion flange will not bolt up to a 260Z stub axle. This is also a good upgrade for more powerful Z’s.

[Guest 240hybrid]

Just to let you know, 280z stub axles have 27 splines on them, while 240z stubs have 25. I'm pretty sure of this, but someone will correct me if wrong. These stouter stub axles are much more reliable than 240z stubs if your running a large amount of HP through them. Good luck

[Guest Anonymous]

Let me make sure I understand this

 

If I take the 4 bolts off of the flange that connect to the halfshaft, there is a big bolt behind that. After the big bolt comes off the flange will come out, but I will need to remove the stub axle (25 spline) and replace it with a 280 stub axle (27 spline)?

 

If all this is correct, then I should be able to send 280z flanges to Ross (I think he will weld them to the adaptors) while I put in new stub axles.

 

Next question, It looks like a PITA to remove the stub axles? Whats the best way?

 

I found this pic on ScottieGNZ's site and it explains a lot...to me anyway

 

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

Originally posted by tdab:

Let me make sure I understand this

"If I take the 4 bolts off of the flange that connect to the halfshaft" (at the wheel/hub side) there is a big bolt (big nut on the end of the stub axle, stub axle is the actual flange your wheel is bolted to...it has a splined axle that passes thru the rear hub, thru the companion flange and is then nutted down by the big nut)

 

behind that. After the big bolt (nut) comes off the (companion) flange will come out, but I will need to remove the stub axle (25 spline) and replace it with a 280 stub axle (27 spline)?

 

You have to replace stub axles and companion flanges as pairs as they share the splines. So if you have 240Z stubs/companion flanges and want 280Z units.....find a set of 280Z units, send me the companion flanges to mate with CV adaptors, I'll send you CV adaptors back....then remove your rear 240Z stubs/comp. flanges and reinstall your new 280Z stubs/comp.flanges mated with CV's as a new unit.

 

If you do go the route of removing your rear stubs, it's a good time to do any other planned rear brake work as you have to remove some parts in common anyhow, just an option.

 

"Next question, It looks like a PITA to remove the stub axles? Whats the best way?"

 

First remove the halfshaft, then with a diegrinder or similar, 'unstake' the peened portion on that 'big nut', their's a flat portion under it into which the nut has been 'pinched' in and if you grind out the pinched portion then the nut will come off (still takes lots of force but at least it will come off). I use a 400 ft-lb impact with a large breaker bar tiewired to my wheel studs so the axle can't turn.....be very careful if you do this that your breaker bar is secured in the correct orientation and safely! Once that big nut is off the ideal way IMO to remove the stub axle is to beg/borrow a slide hammer, it bolts onto the wheel studs and you give it 2-4 big tugs and your stub axle just jumps out. (set your car up in your garage such that you have enough stroke on either side to use the slide hammer ).

[Mudge]

Ross, I'm trying to do the swap also and came across this

 

Rear Transverse Link Mount:

(Not visible in drawing above:) The rear transverse link mount runs under the rear of the differential and ties to two lower transverse links (see item #8 in drawing above) i.e. the right & left side, together. Two vertical plates run up from it and bolt to the rear subframe (see #5 in drawing above). There are two types used in the first generation Z's. The 280Z's equipped with the R200 use a transverse link that has a downward curve in it, thus allowing more room for the larger R200. The transverse link mount used in Z's equipped with the R180 is straight and should not be used with the R200.

I have a 73, so I have the late R180 setup, do I need to worry about the above? I haven't come across that info anywhere else that I can recall

 

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/R200.htm

 

I'm trying to get all the parts put together within the next week, as I want it running on the 25th.

[Modern Motorsports Ltd]

"I have a 73, so I have the late R180 setup, do I need to worry about the above?"

 

I'm not a R180 to R200 swap whiz but I recall (search the site) that one should use an R200 mustache bar (I think that's the same as the transverse link they're referring to) with an R200....so if you've got an R180 their is some way that you can modify it and use it with an R200 but it's preferred to source an R200 mustache bar from a 280Z for your install.

[Corzette]

Ross, no body mentioned bearings...what bearings do we need in order to reassemble the 280 stubs back into the 240 housing?

 

CZ

[tdab]

Thanks for clearing things up for me. I should be ok. Do you sell the 280z companion flanges/stub axles or should I go ahead and get a set. Also what cars do the stronger units come on? Is it just ’75 – ‘78z’s or can I get them from ZX’s ?

 

I think the wheel bearings are compatible. If that’s the case you wouldn’t need to change them, but I think it would be the thing to do.

 

Ross, we'll be in touch.

 

Thanks for the help guys,

 

Tom

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Ross C:

I'm not a R180 to R200 swap whiz but I recall (search the site) that one should use an R200 mustache bar (I think that's the same as the transverse link they're referring to) with an R200....so if you've got an R180 their is some way that you can modify it and use it with an R200 but it's preferred to source an R200 mustache bar from a 280Z for your install.

I hope thats what they meant, whew.

[Guest GaryZ]

Mudge--

 

I might be wrong about this but I thought you had to change out the rear traverse link to get enough clearance for the drain plug, or the diff in general. Altho this swap is for the R200 from a 200sx it shows the linkage I was referring to:

 

http://240Z.jeromio.com/images/411rear/

[Guest GaryZ]

Mudge--

 

I might be wrong about this but I thought you had to change out the rear traverse link to get enough clearance for the drain plug, or the diff in general. Altho this swap is for the R200 from a 200sx it shows the linkage I was referring to:

 

http://240Z.jeromio.com/images/411rear/

[jeromio]

In reverse order:

 

The transverse bar is not the mustache bar. It is the lower bar that connects the rear part of the 2 lower arms together and also serves as the bottom part of both pivot points. On 73 and later cars with the diff pushed back to the correct location, this bar has a slight curve to it. The early cars had a straight bar (the diff was about an inch forward, causing the shafts to be angled in slightly towards the diff).

 

The mustache bar that goes with this set up is also different as it has a slight curve to it (although the curve goes forwards - the bar is flipped relative to the early bar, with the bushing circles forward).

 

BUT, if you have an LSD, you cannot use the finned rear cover with any kind of stock transverse bar.

 

Said Ross C:

2-4 big tugs and your stub axle just jumps out

You're a much stronger man than I. My stubs were murder to remove. I took mine out to replace bearings. IMO, you don't absolutely need to use 280 stubs unless you are tryna put ScottieGNZ levels of power thru them. However, 30 year old bearings are another matter, and if you're gonna replace bearings, you may as well upgrade the stubs. Then again, if you truly suffer from "while-yer-atit" syndrome, you could get the 280Z stubs peaned and heat treated before installation . BTW, you need 280Z (75-78) stubs, ZX stubs are different.

 

Also, just as Ross suggested, you should really consider doing the brake upgrade now also. If the stub does break, and you have drums, the whole assembly including the wheel will come right off. Disc brake calipers will capture the disc and prevent catestrophe in this situation.

 

When I did this work to my car, I just took everything completely apart and did the coilovers, cartrudges, strut sectioning, poly bushings, brakes, bearings, painting - everything.

[Guest GaryZ]

Jeromio: was that also true for the 72 240z? I thought the diff location (problem) was confined to 70-71.

[Tony240ZT]

I've had a R200 in my car before, but took it out because it was pushing the drive shaft really hard into the tranny, and it melted the rear tranny seal..

 

I think my problem was that I didn't have the correct front diff mount.. I can't remember what I used, but I think I remember ordering a new R200 front mount for the car, was I suppose to stick with the R180 mount for my car..

 

This was in my `72 which isn't like the series I cars. It apears identical to my `73.

 

Thank you for clearifying the spline difference between 280/240. I have the CV adapters welded on the 280 hardware, so I guess I'll be in search for a mate.

 

Ross, I will definately be doing the 240sx rear disk setup in the near future. Thank you again for putting together the goodies for us z peeps..

[Mudge]

I wish I read this thread more carefully, I just bought regular old R200 stub axles and now I can't use them

 

I was soooooo hoping to have this ready by the 25th but it looks like I wont be ready for awhile, darnit. I have an R200 LSD that I'm trying to complete, if anyone has a line on whatever stub axles I need to finish this that would be great

 

Can someone clear up which ones can be used with or without adapters?

 

So far I see 280ZX listed above, but thought I heard 300ZX/ZXT also? There is a circlip inside the LSD unit I have in the splined area, if that helps.

 

The R200 of the third generation Z's (84-89 300ZX) are also basically the same, but do have major differences that must be addressed, prior to retro fitting them to the earlier generations of Z Cars. The side output shafts (stub axles) have to be swapped with those of an R200 from the first or second generation cars.

 

What Is Different Among / Between The R200's ?

 

Ring Gear Bolts:

The 84 to 89 R200's used a ring gear bolted to the carrier with 12mm bolts vs. the 75-83 R200's which used 10mm bolts for that purpose. Thus the ring and pinion sets are not interchangeable between the two.

 

Stub Axles with Bolt on Flanges, CV Joints and Driveshaft Flanges:

Some of the R200's use stub axles (stub axles come out the side of the differential carrier) with bolt on flanges, which attach to the halfshafts (which Nissan calls driveshafts - side) that use universal joints. Some R200's use stub axles that are attached to CV Joints. You can pop the stub axles out of the differential carrier in each of these and swap them.

 

About Swapping-out The R180 In The 240Z - For An R200 LSD From A 300ZX.

You need the same mounting hardware described above. Plus you have to change the flanges and/or drive shaft input yoke.

 

The R200's used in the 84-89 300ZX Turbo were equipped with Clutch Type Limited Slip Differential Units. These rear end's are set up to run with CV joints. So to install one in your 240Z you have to remove the CV joint type stub axle and replace it with the stub axles with flanges that will match the flanges on your half shafts (what Nissan calls a "drive shaft -side" - we usually refer to as "half shafts"). This is a pull out/snap in operation.