datsunlover Posted July 15, 2000 Author Share Posted July 15, 2000 Ok GNZ: I know you can get a lot of HP out of a four cyl.. but it would cost a lot of $$$. Sure, I could do the cam, shave the head, put on headers, k+n filter, maybe even a turbo, the whole 9 yards. But it would still be a 4 cyl, and longevity concerns me. I mean, a 2.0L with 300 HP is going to be a little stressed dont you think? (just curious, how much did your buddys silvia engine cost him?) John Scott: I think I will go with a 4.3, but it's not set in stone yet. I heard about a 2.8 w/190hp the other day... some guy put it in his tr6. That would be great..next to no weight, and lots of power! And I do know the 4.3 is wide, but it's the length that is my problem. (Firewall to rad suport) Also, if I get a 5 speed (with the 4.3), what is the gearing like? (I know little about Chevy, I am sorry) I mean, I have always liked the Nissan trany for the good ratios.. Well, any help is apreciated! ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted July 15, 2000 Share Posted July 15, 2000 CDG, I think the gear ratios for most GMs are as follows: 2.95, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, .62. Go with the V8 T5 for sure. As usual, you'll hear that you should get the 88 and up Worldclass T5. The six cyl T5 has a really low 1st. Better for a truck than a Z. 3.76:1. Torque rating is also way below the V8 T5's. I have the same questions and feelings about big HP little displacement motors. 4-500 hp hammering through 4 or 6 pistons/rod bearings, and only 4 main bearings is going to take its toll. I love the giant killers, but a durable piece will cost some $$. I can't believe they will outlast a similar output v8. BTW, since you're in the business, just how much is a salvage yard 4.3? (85-92) [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited July 15, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 16, 2000 Author Share Posted July 16, 2000 Well.. I think a good running 4.3 would cost about $250... give or take a bit. If you wanted one for a rebuild, it't be about $100 I guess... I'm thinking about the 4.3 because it's basicaly a 350 with two cys chopped off.. so it should handel the stress of 200-300 HP. ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 16, 2000 Share Posted July 16, 2000 datsunlover, please do not take my post as trying to talk you out of your ideas. What I am trying to do is educate you and give you a dose of reality. You are a Datsun lover but seem totally unaware of some of the best engines Nissan has ever produced. The 4-cylinder engines I and Psyence referred to are pure turbo engines from the factory and will make 300hp if you look at them hard enough. These engines are not as expensive as most believe and there are several companies selling complete drivetrains. I do not know the price but I doubt you would spend more than $2500. BTW, my friend's car IS a Silvia. Now for the dose of reality. Getting a 4.3 for $250 means squat. If you want 300hp, when you get done with the conversion, I guarantee you will spend 20 TIMES that amount. If there is anyone out there that disputes that, I would love to hear how it can be done because the only way I know is to find a Sy/Ty drivetrain CHEAP. Before we get dl off on a tangent dreaming of 300hp 4.3L with Pro-chargers, T56, etc, he ought to know what he is getting into $$$-wise. Scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 16, 2000 Author Share Posted July 16, 2000 Ok Scottie... I understand your point of view. Actualy, I can get a whole doner car (4.3, 5 speed, etc) for about $100 because I work at the yard, so I get a discount. I will be able to have the work done fairly cheap too. I know that you can get a lot of HP from a 4 cyl turbo.. but I have never been much of a turbo fan. You have to be to meticulous with the maintenance, and watch evrything carefully. Also, I like the idea of a carb and naturaly aspirated rather than fuel injection and electronics all over the place. I figure, if I'm going to have to do mods to fit a turbo 4 cyl... why not just go bigger from the start? Honestly man.. to get 400+HP from a 4 is a little out of my price range for this project. ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted July 16, 2000 Share Posted July 16, 2000 I'd be willing to dispute Scottie's cost prediction of $5000 for a 300 HP 4.3. I can break all this down dollar for dollar, (I have a dyno build test article from Katech pushing close to 300 hp, stock 85 engine, w/o even touching the recip. assem.) but that's not the point. First of all, for 300 hp you don't have to use a turbo, or supercharger. (yes I know the Sy/ty is rated at a paltry 280 hp, but it has a ton of touque throughout the rpm range from the turbo. THAT is what makes them fast. The only thing a Syclone ENGINE has going for it is a really sophisticated FI turbo/intercooler/computer set up. Their camshaft is really a stick with pimple size bumps on it and a rev limiter that keeps everything around the 5000 rpm mark. From a performance standpoint, nothing but hypereutectic pistons and a cool fuel injection system have been added to the engine. There are so many other ways availible for the 4.3 to make more power. High RPM, higher compression, and bigger cam will give you some pretty good HP#s. I will agree that it won't be a cheap engine to build, especially if you have naturally aspirated, or supercharged needs WAY over the 300 HP mark. Along with every other cost of building, you'll need aftermarket heads. Brodix ready to run are about $1700. OUCH! Also requires a BIG nasty cam. Aftermarket head prices are the reason I went ATI. For the same price (back then) I knew I could have more TQ/HP. This is all going to depend on your power needs. For high HP the 4.3 is not a budget motor. For moderate power, it doesn't have to be that expensive. w/ better pistons, bigger cam, a little head work, manifold, etc, it can be a great street motor. All this talk of HP figures is relative. We're all putting way too much emphasis on a #. I have a friends running 11 flat 1/4s in a car weighing 3300 lbs, 800 lbs. more than a Z that will tell you it has a honest 380 hp. Most of the serious engine builders I know don't give the hp #s too much weight. How and where an engine make the power will mean more than a single peak hp figure. Do the math on what it takes to make a 3300 lb or so Viper push 100 mph (still haven't seen one break 100) @ our 6000 ft dragstrip and you'll see how exagerated that 450 hp figure is. Hmmm only 255 HP? How'd we lose the other 200? Boy, the altiude really must sap those V10s! 120 mph would only take 440 hp. JS [This message has been edited by John Scott (edited July 16, 2000).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 16, 2000 Author Share Posted July 16, 2000 Thank you John, and I'm sorry Scottie if I offended you.. You see, I have a friend with an S10 (well, had.. he wraped it around a tree last fall) And he had the 4.3 w/5speed. He had a mild cam, some head work, high comp pistons,intake and exhaust done. He said it cost him about $1800 after taxes and such. At the time, I was drving one of my '81 280zx's. (the nice black one; it's on my site. If you wana take a look, just copy this link into your web browser (it should work): http://www.geocities.com/apartmentdweller/datsun3.html) I wanted to do some similar work to my Datsun, (My friend w/the S10 was constantly blowing my doors off in the red light drags) but to get anywhere neer the same power to weight ratio / HP out of my 280ZX it was going to cost me mega $$$! I know Nissan makes great motors, I love them! I'm just saying that a Chevy engine is going to be cheaper/easier to get performance parts for, and will most likely be more reliable in the long run. (FI engines always give me headaches) Besides: Out of the box, a stock 4.3 (properly geared mind you) will stomp on my 200sx's 4 cyl. I don't think anyone can dispute that. Even if I just did an intake and header w/exhast, the 4.3 would make my little car go like hell! And I wouldn't have to worry about breaking something, because the engine isn't stressed too much.. right? I will admit, I don't know too much about Chevy products, (which trany is best for me, etc) but that's why I came here: I hope I can get some advice, and learn some things from you people ok? Thanks for any responce guys, I'll be in touch! ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted July 16, 2000 Share Posted July 16, 2000 One last post and I'm outa here. I had a 4.3 from a 10K astro,$450. Stock quadrajet, 159.00comp cam custom grind, $xxfresh valve job and thats it. Put it in a Toyota Hilux. Much heavier than the Z. Could beat any stock 350 Camaro in town. Only the Vettes could catch me after 90 mph. 150,000 miles later and lots of abuse, not one engine failure, I decided to go supercharged Z. The low end on this engine was incredible. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted July 16, 2000 Share Posted July 16, 2000 Whoa guys, no need to make this a debate and d-l why do you think you need to say sorry or that I am offended? I go back to my statement and it says "when you get done with the conversion, I guarantee you will spend 20 TIMES that amount". No doubt you can do a nice 4.3L buildup, but d-l does not have the proper flywheel, clutch, transmission, driveshaft, radiator, coolers, and everything necessary to make the swap, one which has probably never been done before. Unless d-l can fabricate and weld, he will have that car in a fabricator's shop for trial fitting, fabrication and welding. It only takes 20 hours at $50/per to rack up $1000 in fabrication costs. I have done more engine swaps than I can remember and altough I am quite capable of the trial fiiting and mocking up the mounts, I shy away from swaps that require serious fabrication. Believe, it is not the cost of the engine that drives the cost up. BTW, d-l, it just occured to me that you never said how fast you want to go. Now, if I had that car , wanted to go fast and had a tight budget, here is what I would do. I would get the complete drivetrain out of a 84-89 300ZX turbo with the EFI harness, and since the 200SX also came with the non-turbo engine, voila, in no time you are up and running. Nissan should be embarassed for how they choked up that engine. Over time, an I/C and a 3" exhaust gets you 250+hp and an upgrade to t3/t04 hybrid turbo will get you over 300hp with a good pump and a set of injectors. With that I have a car capable of approaching 12.0 Sorry guys, I will get off my turbo kick, I just cannot help it with all that free HP asking to uncorked. Scottie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 16, 2000 Share Posted July 16, 2000 Datsunlover, I would seriously consider scotties suggestions! Like he said, he's been there before. I'm really not too keen on backtracking 40odd years and putting pushrods in my engine. No offense intended to you V8 guys, but the pushrod is a pretty lousy design/concept. Anyway, thats another discussion. Since Scottie started it: If it were me with a 200sx what would I do? Nissan makes great engines, I'd stay Nissan, if I had the cash I'd look for a 2.0L turbo silvia engine. If I had a bit less of a budget I'd look at a 2.4L out of a 240sx, and a turbo kit for it. Even though most refer to it as a truck engine, it has some great potential. Check out http://www.sdsefi.com/features/240sx.htm if you doubt! Stay nissan and your transmission etc are adequate for what you are doing, freeing up cash for other things like a bigger turbo. ------------------ Drax240z 1973 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 D.L. I agree with Scottie. I think your best bet is the 3 lt. nissan motor. You questioned there strength but the only failures i've seen were because the timing belt was neglected. As for cost it would also be the cheapest. Mounts are available from nissan so it would also be the easiest. Either way let us know what you do. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 18, 2000 Author Share Posted July 18, 2000 Well guys, I am thinking about the 3.0L Nissan.. but I'm having trouble finding a suitable car.. Any 300ZX's around here are either to expensive (IE: In amazing shape, so why would I rip it apart?) Or they are high mileage rot boxes. (We got one in today at the scrap yard...sorry BLKMGK, it's all white!) I know a turbo would give me more power, but a high milage turbo is most likly gona need a rebuild (cause no body seems to know how to look after a turbo around my area!! Grrrr...) I agree, I could get the motor/trany mounts from Nissan, but what about my fuel pump? Will it be the same as a 300zx or will I have the hassle of changing it over? (I know for a fact, a new fuel pump for my car will cost me about $400. God damn dealership!) Oh yah, just a question.. anyone know if the compuer cotroles the fuel pump? Or is it just wired to the ignition switch? Sorry if this is a stupid question. And I know the 300ZX has a hydraulic clutch.. will my present system be up to the task? Like I've said, I was thinking Chev for simplicity.. Carb, cable opperated clutch, cheaper parts, etc. I guess a bonus though would be hooking up all my guages... Nissan to NIssan right? Lol. I'll keep you all posted. ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 You migh twant to consider grabbing the rear from that 300ZX and selling it. At the very least they shoudl realize that those are unique parts and command a higher price because of it. One site was selling one of those to the "highest bidder" so it might be an opportunity for you to make a bit of cash I for one wouldn't touch it though, sorry. I really appreciate you looking out for me though! I MIGHT have found a rear nearby, I hope to know soon. I may also be looking at the Reider LSD as part of the group buy. As for th eclutch question. Your stock clutch master might not be able to handle a different trans but neither can the Z master - we're swapping them out. You may also be able to do the same if you need to. It's little issues like this that come up when you do something no one else has done and is why some of us aren't so sure we'd do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 18, 2000 Author Share Posted July 18, 2000 Well, actualy I'm thinking about buying the whole car from my boss. It came in on a flat bed today, because it won't run. (and the floor does not exist anymore!) I talked to the guy who was scraping it, and I think it's just a minor problem... (I didn't tell him though).. if it runs ok, I could use the mechanicals from it... and the clutch master, brakes, etc. It's an '84 so my Z rims should fit too... I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know. Anyone know about the fuel pump? Thanks! ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 You should be able to use the 300zx fuel pump, I'd imagine its a direct wire in swap. If not, don't spend $400 on a new one, I am pretty sure you can get similar flowing Bosch pumps for under $100. ------------------ Drax240z 1973 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! http://members.xoom.com/r_lewis/datsun.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 19, 2000 Author Share Posted July 19, 2000 Well, some bad news on my "would be" doner 300zx... it apears the previous owner tried to make his auto into a 5 speed... it didn't go over to well. That car is junk now. Too bad really... oh well, I guess I'll just keep looking! Oh yah, something interesting I found out... Fender flares from an AMC Spirit will fit my car.. and most likly a Z car too. (Actually, they're a litle big for my car) They stick out about 3" and look really cool. And they're rubber too.. (not fiber glass) so they won't break off or crack. It's cheap, and it looks good. ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 In case you can't find a 300zx, you can find basically same engine was also in the Maxima and Pathfinder for many years, although not in turbo form. That 3.0L v6 is a great engine. My brother has over 170k miles on his Maxima and has not had any problems. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Is someone questioning the durability of the Nissan 3 liter? A local race engine builder/mechanical engineer recently rebuilt one. He claimed that those motors were over so overbuilt they should be good for 400,000 miles. He is a Chevy man btw. Also said they were easy to get power out of because their heads didn't flow well. He should know as he got 300hp (naturally aspirated) with porting and a new cam. Thats 100hp/liter! -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted July 21, 2000 Author Share Posted July 21, 2000 Yes I know the Maxima has the same 3 liter, but I cant seem to find one with a 5 speed...and if I did, is it the same trany as the 300zx? I was thinking of a whole 300zx so I could use the brakes and evrything too... I don't know much about the Maxima.. is the braking system the same as the 300? I always thought the Maxima was front drive...Anyway, thankes for the info.. I like the sounds of $300 'unblown' HP... Are you serious? All he did was a cam and port job? (Well, intake and exhast of course) Wow.. I'm impressed! Well, if anyone knows about the Maxima, let me know..Thanks! ------------------ The crazy datsun guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 My brother has a 92 Maxima and swapped in 300zx front brakes as an upgrade, so they probably aren't the same. Like you said, Maximas are front drive cars so I don't know about using their tranny. As for the 300hp 3 liter, it looks like you'll also need the computer reprogrammed for the new cam. Other than that, I don't think it required custom rods crank or anything too special. You can see his page at http://www.hekimianracing.com/ -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.