maybemark Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Dustin I have an intercooler though. What about the water building up in the lines of the intercooler? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin280zx Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 What did Rodney tell you? Did I read your post correctly and say that people are using a #3 nozzle before the turbo with the intercooler. If Rodney recommended you doing that then he's done it before on more than one car. It wouldn't matter if it was race or street because puddling would affect both. However the #3 nozzle is very small and it most likely vaporizes as soon as it is entered into the atmosphere. You should ask Rodney two questions. One would be the percent of alcohol that he was spraying because alcohol has a lower heat of vaporization than water. The second would be if the water/meth would condense back into a liquid in the intercooler after shutdown. Most likely the water/meth would be out of the charge pipe all together because it doesn't spray at low or no boost. Also with that small of nozzle I don't think the percent alcohol would matter much. But just ask him to be certain. Remember when I was told that it would cause puddling that was over a year ago. New data and tests could have changed that so it could be possible to run a nozzle before the intercooler now. I still run into people that putting a turbo or centrifugal can only work with fuel injection and there is a "trick" to my carburetor. Just because it was true back then doesn't mean its true now when especially when it comes to this turbo stuff. And company wouldn't tell you to do something that wouldn't make your car run right unless they tested it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybemark Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Dustin Rodney asked what i will be running, and i told him, windsheild washer fluid. I have to say, I'm nevous about that application before the turbo, even though it's a #3 nozzle thanks for you input Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin280zx Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Alot of people run that. I have ran it. Just make sure you get the kinda that doesn't have any soap additives (the blue stuff). The only reason I stopped running it was because I wanted to experiment with different percents of alcohol so I just mixed my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 According to the MSDS sheet for the blue stuff walmart has, it's ~26% methanol and 74% water(+- a few %, I don't have the sheet handy right now), no soaps or additives. I had to look this up because it makes a perfect heat transfer medium in geothermal heat pump systems, and it's about 1/4 of the cost of the name brand heat pump stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's not about condensing back into a liquid after cooldown, it's about condensing back into a liquid as it passes through the intercooler and the air charge is cooled thus lowering its liquid retention capacity. It may be a concern if you are spraying a large quantity of water/methanol as the air charge may be saturated such that any change in state (lower temp, lower pressure as that would occur as it passes through an intercooler) results in the formation on condensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybemark Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hi everyone Ist, I want to thank everyone for their input. I really do appreciate it. I hooked up the system a few nights ago, at this time, I chose to only put a nozzel right before the throttle body and not at the intake of the turbo. I might change my mind. I ran it down the street, and I got some bogging at high boost, obviously I need to do some tuning on the system and megasquirt. I didn't run it too much, just between the bad weather, work around the house, and getting my bike ready for the season. I hope to run it a little late at night this week. Thanks again Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin280zx Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 ktm is right. College summer classes make your brain think improperly. But with that small of nozzle you should be alright. If you haven't change anything since you put it on it will most likely be rich. When you tune either add some timing or pull some fuel but DO NOT do both at the same time. 30% mixture should drop your a/f ~.6 but that is with my motor and my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 When you tune either add some timing or pull some fuel but DO NOT do both at the same time. 30% mixture should drop your a/f ~.6 but that is with my motor and my setup. It depends on your injectant and the quantity you are injecting. For instance, I am using 100% methanol injected using two FJO Racing 700 cc/min high speed PWM solenoids/injectors (for 1400 cc/min at 100% duty). I am injecting around 20% of my primary fuel, thus I pull 20% of my primary fuel. However, methanol burns slower than gasoline so I have to add timing just to get a more complete burn. Furthermore, methanol has an octane rating of approximately 118, so you can add timing just from a detonation resistance standpoint as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Yes, the saturation point is the key. It can condense out if you are injecting enough water to be above the saturation point after intercooling. The same goes with water and humidity, really. The smaller nozzle is cooling the turbo, as well as widening the performance mapping of the compressor turbine thrugh the state change making the compression process more efficiently. Really, at about 45C, you would have a very hard time condensing anything back out, you could literally dump liters of alky into the turbo and if it didn't drop below 45C, chances are good it would never condense back out, and the capacity to hold liquids in suspension doubles between 85F and 120F (you convert to "C"...) Even at 85F, it's still got quite a bit of liquid carrying capacity. Technically, if you are injecting, you should be injecting enough that the air leaving the turbo is a 100% R/H of the liquid being injected. This is the condition where separation would occur if the intercooler was positioned downstream and even a 10C drop in temperature was experienced. Likely nobody now is dumping that kind of liquid into the inlet due to timing advances, etc... The ammount of anti-detonant injected is a LOT less than in 1979 when most of the books on the subject were written (or were on the market as new, but referencing technology from the 60's...) Things Change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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