Kurai Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hey guys I'm new to the forum but have been trolling around for a month or so (spare the flames lol)....neways oppurtunity (and a deployment to afghanistan) has allowed me to go ahead with one of my dreamed about builds....a 197x datsun with a Toyota I6 powerplant. I have yet to get the chassis but have my eye on a nice 77 280Z going for $2000 great shape inside and out minus a couple dents and a bad door, but the issue I'm having is what engine to build fortune has landed a 7mgte w/transmission and a 1jzgte in my lap at the sweet price of $200 from a guy who was tired of them clogging up his garage (left from previous swaps) the 7m needs to be completely rebuilt (spun bearing, low oil pressure most likely) and the 1jz has blown rings and no tranny, but I cant decide which to build??? The 7m is in worse shape but would be cheaper to build and the 1jz is newer but no tranny and parts are harder to source......in either case I'm not 100% sure what all is missing or non functional on the engines since I dont know their tales first hand. So I am curious what you guys think? I am willing to pay and have either one built and upgraded but am not looking to spend a fortune on it if I dont have to. Any advice and/or opinions would be appreciated thanx in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritz Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 If you're going to build the 7m; i would choose that. Be sure to check if the head and block is square and not warp. Use felpro or a metal head gasket, head studs and enjoy boosting many years with the 7m....From what i read a built 7m is reliable up to 500-550whp.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 thx for the input yes I'd really like to do the 7m, 3.0 parts are easier to find for it if needed, cheaper to build while still meeting my power goal (600whp+/-) My main concern is just that everything is square with the block and head....almost all the guts will be upgraded as it is and it will definately need machine work so might as well get it all PnP and 1 over the valves etc etc etc....has anyone run into any major issues other then the low oil pressure I keep hearing about? Im thinking a modded oil pickup to get it closer to bottom of pan or a dry sump system might do wonders or even a Moroso race pan along with a stronger toga hv oil pump might fix that but any other recurring issues you guys seeing out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritz Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 thx for the input yes I'd really like to do the 7m, 3.0 parts are easier to find for it if needed, cheaper to build while still meeting my power goal (600whp+/-) My main concern is just that everything is square with the block and head....almost all the guts will be upgraded as it is and it will definately need machine work so might as well get it all PnP and 1 over the valves etc etc etc....has anyone run into any major issues other then the low oil pressure I keep hearing about? Im thinking a modded oil pickup to get it closer to bottom of pan or a dry sump system might do wonders or even a Moroso race pan along with a stronger toga hv oil pump might fix that but any other recurring issues you guys seeing out there? Not trying to talk you out of what you are doing....but have you ever driven a sub 2600lbs car with 600whp+?? it will be useless on the street...unless of cousre you are planing on setting the car up for that kind of power which will prolly cost double the engine build...just something to think about..most s30's with a good driver will run low to mid 12's on a strong 300whp.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Not trying to talk you out of what you are doing....but have you ever driven a sub 2600lbs car with 600whp+?? it will be useless on the street...unless of cousre you are planing on setting the car up for that kind of power which will prolly cost double the engine build...just something to think about..most s30's with a good driver will run low to mid 12's on a strong 300whp.. Honestly I cant say that I ever have. but not sure what you mean by "setup" either though. Think closest I've come to driving anything like that was 500+whp Corvette. Which wasnt that bad but I also know it has a whole slew of supporting mods and gizmos to make it stick and controllable. I was mostly basing the target off of the engine comp. that I would need to replace just bringing the 7M back to life in a form I could sleep with at night lol. The bearings will need replacing for sure, new pistons are needed and cyl. walls reworked at a min. rods may be ok but might as well do them too while I'm in there and the entire head and valvetrain will need to be worked and replaced also the previous owner didnt leave the ECU so a new standalone will be required as well......so in doing all that I might as well upgrade everything that has to be replaced, but going off those upgraded comp. I figured 600whp was a pretty easy target from what I've seen so far. Granted i'll be adding a couple goodies like a new street/track oriented suspension (going off the handie dandie guide on this forum) and will definately try to employ some sorta aftermarket TCS which a couple of local guys tell me they have done on older Zs and upgraded brakes. The brakes and suspension may take longer then the rest though. I definately see what you are getting at though and plan on 600+/- being a max boost target, would run alot less on the street, but it is definately a good thing to know if the time come and I need to start cutting costs lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritz Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thats cool..Just don't cut cost on brakes and suspension these are old cars, so thats got to be priority for a safe ride..If you haven't already check out suprafoums and supramania for your 7m needs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thx man yeah I'm trying to get some decent guidance on how to proceed with the build before I start dumping alot of cash into it. I figure the engine and chassis will require the most "in shop" time brakes and suspension can wait and be done in the garage. but wanna make sure so am gonna spend the next couple months doing research before I start investing and buying things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc052685 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am high 11's with 247whp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am high 11's with 247whp Thats pretty good for those numbers thats for sure. lol makes me want this build more and more lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc052685 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 ^^^ Sorry was supposed to read 274whp lol. Just finished driving from LA to San Diego to Houston straight. I am a bit tired...... Although it did 274whp it also did 328wtq so that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 i don't see why you would want to build a 7m over the 1jz when the 7m has bearing damages while the 1jz only has blown rings? with the machine work needed for the 7m, you can save yourself some time and just get a 1jz bell housing and a new set of rings and your almost ready to go! i dont want to change your thoughts but the 1jz is also consider an upgrade in the toyota L6 series. both engine is easy HP when built and all depends on what your familiar with. i would go 1jz over the 7m IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 i don't see why you would want to build a 7m over the 1jz when the 7m has bearing damages while the 1jz only has blown rings? with the machine work needed for the 7m, you can save yourself some time and just get a 1jz bell housing and a new set of rings and your almost ready to go! i dont want to change your thoughts but the 1jz is also consider an upgrade in the toyota L6 series. both engine is easy HP when built and all depends on what your familiar with. i would go 1jz over the 7m IMO. I kno the 1jz is newer but what are all the advantages of it over the 7m? and how hard is a bellhousing to find? I know the 1jz is in way better shape but was gonna have them both checked just to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) there really is no advantage over the 7m besides that it is a newer engine. both blocks are good for 600-700 factory with the right fuel setups either way but that's considering in the higher numbers. with the money invested in the 7m machine work and parts why not get yourself a bell housing from driftmotion.com or ??? and get yourself a decent manifold and a nice size turbo? with the two blocks in their current conditions, i am almost wanting to bet that you will spend less on the 1jz and save yourself some extra cash for other good stuff like brakes, etc...and still hit the power goal you are aiming for. i havent build a 1jz myself, but a lot of the guys over at supramania tends to say that the parts interchange with a newer 2jz. Edited November 22, 2009 by piston edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggyZ Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What a great debate this is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 ..........well i had just wrote a long post lol....but hit wrong button and erased it....so in a monotone recap what would be the best place to get info on building a 600whp engine 1jz or 7mgte that will probably only be ran on/or around 450-500whp? I wanna leave a little room to breath on the engine incase I get really greedy for power one day or have a undying need to spin in a circle for undetermined amounts of time lol. but yeah after hearing the power/weight statement above 600whp maybe be alot for such a light car that will be street/track driven, and saving the cash for the suspension will be nice not to mention the cash ima be spitting out to have the body restored as well if I get the one I have my eye on ( oh and FYI if any you guys got eyes on a 197x chassis that is in good condition little to no rust going for less then 2000 let me know lol, as I havent bought the chassis itself yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 too bad you dont live in california. i see good conitions all from north all the way down south for under that price on craigs list every once in a while. i got mine for 500.00 with minumal rust. to find out this thing has never been hit, touched or modded. score!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redleg Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (there really is no advantage over the 7m besides that it is a newer engine.)????? 7m 3.0 liter vs 1J 2.5 liter. 7m will have more low end torque. I have a 7m in my 240z running well over 500hp around 24 psi of boost. If you want to take advantage of all that power in a car under 2500lbs. All I can say is DRAG RADIALS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 After talking on here with you guys and following some internet trails I think I will go with the 1jz...I know for a fact that it is in far better shape then the 7m and have been able to find a few sites now to source most of the parts id need. So what in your guys opinion would be the ingredients for a solid reliable 1jz capable of UP TO 600whp? I dont wanna spend alot of cash over-building as I tend to do I just want it to be able to handle 600 if need be but prob ran on a regular around 450-500whp..........Ive compiled a list of things I think I will need and some other stuff let me know what you guys think I should cut/need/can find cheaper and where. thx in advance its a long list lol, and somethings I know have no source yet as I havent found them or am unsure if they are needed or which part/size to get for my goal. Project Supra powered 1977 280Z Powerplant 1JZ-GTE 2.5l Inline 6: ------------------------------------------------------ 1JZ - R154 Bellhousing http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jz2jzr154bellhousing.php 1JZ Bell housing bolts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jz2jzbellhousingboltset.php 1JZ wiring Harness 1JZ Serpentine belt http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jzserpentinebelt.php 1JZ Valve cover bolts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jz2jz7mvalvecoverbolt.php Standalone ECU Crower Cams http://www.suprastore.com/brcr1jzca.html Crower Connecting Rods CP Pistons and rings with Swaintech coated crowns and skirts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jzcppistonset.php Balanced and Blueprinted block 1JZ Altenator http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-1jzsupraalternator.php Crower Retainers and valve springs http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/BC0300 Ferrea Valves Port and polished head, 3 angle valve job (+1.0mm) Main bearings Rod bearing Walboro 255lph in tank pump Walboro 255lph inline pump http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-walbro255lphhighpressureinlinefuelpump.php 550+cc injectors 90mm throttle body Heat shielding intake manifold gasket http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-heatshieldinggasket1jz.php Moroso oil pan Polyurethane motor mounts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-polyurethanemotormountsfor865-88supramk3.php Polyurethane transmission mounts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-polyurethanetransmountforr154.php APR main studs http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-arp203-5405.php APR head studs http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-arp203-4205.php APR flywheel bolts http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-arp1jzflywheelbolts.php Greddy Extreme Timing belt http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-greddy13514501-1jz.php Custom Intake Manifold Custom exhaust Dream Car Customs in house Aeromotive Fuel pressure control kit http://store.driftmotion.com/static/i-afprkit1jz.php TRD Performance Thermostat Mishimoto electric fan w/ shroud http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimotorsports-dual-pass-race-radiator-fan-shroud-kit.html Mishimoto radiator http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimotorsports-dual-pass-race-radiator.html Mishimoto intercooler http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-universal-intercooler-large-black.html Fidanza flywheel Powdercoated Valve cover, Engine block, and Transmission, Intake manifold, and Head (if possible) Chassis 1977 Datsun 280Z: ------------------------------------------ Candy/Blood Red metallic paint, Black Metallic Engine bay, Rhino-lined underbody Cowl CF Induction hood http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/7BSA05/50-1537 CF ZG flare kit http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/7BSA05/50-1563 Urethane side skirts http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/7SS/50-1467 CF Rear Lip Spoiler http://www.zccjdm.com/catalog.php/azcarbum/dt86727/pd1851177/S30_Z_CAR__SPARROW_TAIL__REAR_SPOILER__240Z_280Z_ Urethane rear skirt http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/7RS/50-1650 BRE CF Air Dam http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/7BSA05/50-1524 Halogen H4 MSR headlights w/55kw HID conversion http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/EA29/33-2068 Headlight Covers (possibly with eyebrows to help control HID light dispersion) http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/HC Turbo Style Outside mirrors (as needed) http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/EM/50-1152 Clear LED Corner Markers http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/EA33/33-1114 Clear Turn Signals http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/ETS/33-1066 Clear European Taillights http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/ETL/33-1150 left http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/ETL/33-1151 right Side Window Louvers http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/SWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurai Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 bump any thoughts guys........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piston Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 im not sure on how you dont plan to spend too much but from your list, it seems like you will be spending a whole bunch... looks like a wish list? you dont need to go all out on the 1jz motor to pull 500hp. sounds like your building something more in the 800hp from your list. put in some new rings, headgasket and arp studs and your good to go. no need for all the good stuff unless your really going all out. all those good parts just to pull 500hp is a little over kill IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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