98cobra+75280z Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 First off i have a 75 280z with a 82 l28et swap. Im running MS1 v2.2 with a gm HEI4, i also have a relay board from DIY. I have hooked everything up as Moby's writeup and double and triple checked my wiring. One thing I need to go back and make sure is my switched 12v source, Im not 100% sure it is live during cranking. The problems I am having is first with no no spark during cranking. I am pretty sure that the switched source i have, which is from the fuse box, is good and i was hoping to get some tips on were to check to make sure the different components in my ignition circuitry are good and have the proper voltage supplied to them. I set the base timing as described in moby's writeup and set my middle led to IRQ trigger. When i moved the distributor i got the middle led to light up so i preceded to tighten the dizzy down and go from there. I also have the fuel pump hooked up and tested it with just a constant 12v power wire to make sure it works. In megatune the fuel pump shows that it is getting the 5 sec prime but it never seems to actually turn on. And under cranking the fuel pump doesn't turn on. I am confused as to what could cause all these problems since i hooked everything up from moby's writeup and purchased a new hei module so i am certain it is good. The car ran fine when i started this project so the other components should be ok. I cant seem be able to attach my msq, so i will just type some of the settings and if you guys need more info or pictures ill post them. CODE BASED OUTPUTS FIDLE function - spark output A LED17 - squirt LED18 - IRQ trigger LED19 - acceleration SPARK SETTINGS Trigger angle - 60 Angle addition - +45 Spark out inverted - yes DWELL SETTINGS dwell control - fixed duty duty cycle - minimal for HEI4 Im not sure what else to include. sorry for the long post thanks for all your help and being patient.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adimir Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) First off i have a 75 280z with a 82 l28et swap. Im running MS1 v2.2 with a gm HEI4, i also have a relay board from DIY. I have hooked everything up as Moby's writeup and double and triple checked my wiring. One thing I need to go back and make sure is my switched 12v source, Im not 100% sure it is live during cranking. The problems I am having is first with no no spark during cranking. I am pretty sure that the switched source i have, which is from the fuse box, is good and i was hoping to get some tips on were to check to make sure the different components in my ignition circuitry are good and have the proper voltage supplied to them. I set the base timing as described in moby's writeup and set my middle led to IRQ trigger. When i moved the distributor i got the middle led to light up so i preceded to tighten the dizzy down and go from there. I also have the fuel pump hooked up and tested it with just a constant 12v power wire to make sure it works. In megatune the fuel pump shows that it is getting the 5 sec prime but it never seems to actually turn on. And under cranking the fuel pump doesn't turn on. I am confused as to what could cause all these problems since i hooked everything up from moby's writeup and purchased a new hei module so i am certain it is good. The car ran fine when i started this project so the other components should be ok. I cant seem be able to attach my msq, so i will just type some of the settings and if you guys need more info or pictures ill post them. CODE BASED OUTPUTS FIDLE function - spark output A LED17 - squirt LED18 - IRQ trigger LED19 - acceleration SPARK SETTINGS Trigger angle - 60 Angle addition - +45 Spark out inverted - yes DWELL SETTINGS dwell control - fixed duty duty cycle - minimal for HEI4 Im not sure what else to include. sorry for the long post thanks for all your help and being patient.. Well just from reading this and moby;s install, you have one thing wrong i think... from install notes: "Also, if you use the GM 4 pin HEI module, go into MegaTuneSS under trigger and cranking window and make sure the invert box is NOT checked. At first I had this box set to invert the output and it caused my cranking timing and running timing to differ by 20 crank degrees." Edited April 26, 2011 by Adimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Hey guys here is my MSQ. If you guys have time and don't mind can you check it out and make sure everything I have done seems ok. Thanks for your help MS1_v2.2(l28et).zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 I got a chance to work on the car this weekend, but no success. I put my switched 12v on a master kill switch mounted in the center console, so I know i have 12v under cranking. I switched the dwell settings to FIXED DUTY and 75% and I also changed back to no spark inverted. When I put a voltmeter to the HEI 4 module I have 5 volts to pin G and ground to pin W. Pin B has 12v and is connected to the (+) side of the coil and finally pin C is connected to the (-) side of the coil. When I am cranking the car the HEI gets really hot and gets hot quit fast. What could cause this.? When I go to crank the car I have no spark. I am using a timing light on cylinder 1 but I still have no spark. The middle led on MS is blinking and seems to at least think I have spark. Does anyone know what settings I could have wrong or possible wiring i could have missed that's not mentioned in Moby's writeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_82_ZXT Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 You more then likely fried the HEI module if the settings for it were wrong. Some places can still check HEI modules if you bring it to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Latest update... No closer it seems.. I bought a new HEI module and put it in. I made sure the option on spark inverted was on NO. As far as my wiring I have 12v going to the coil positive. then I have the HEI module wired as follows: Pin G goes to FIDLE on the relay board and also has a pull up resistor to 5v ref. Pin w goes to a chassis ground. Pin B goes to the (+) lead on the coil and Pin C goes to (-) lead on the coil. I still have no spark and the ground bolt on the HEI module thats nearest to the Pins that go to the coil gets hot almost immediately. What could cause this side of the module to get so hot so quickly . Should I have not ran a 12v to the coil positive that runs to the HEI pin B. Im so lost on why the HEI module is getting so hot so quickly. Thanks for baring with me. I just have no idea why this module isn't giving me spark and is heating so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adimir Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Latest update... No closer it seems.. I bought a new HEI module and put it in. I made sure the option on spark inverted was on NO. As far as my wiring I have 12v going to the coil positive. then I have the HEI module wired as follows: Pin G goes to FIDLE on the relay board and also has a pull up resistor to 5v ref. Pin w goes to a chassis ground. Pin B goes to the (+) lead on the coil and Pin C goes to (-) lead on the coil. I still have no spark and the ground bolt on the HEI module thats nearest to the Pins that go to the coil gets hot almost immediately. What could cause this side of the module to get so hot so quickly . Should I have not ran a 12v to the coil positive that runs to the HEI pin B. Im so lost on why the HEI module is getting so hot so quickly. Thanks for baring with me. I just have no idea why this module isn't giving me spark and is heating so quickly. As far as the instructions go you dont need live to the coil, just pos and neg from HEI. Your live to coil is probably feeding the HEI and making it heat up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 As far as the instructions go you dont need live to the coil, just pos and neg from HEI. Your live to coil is probably feeding the HEI and making it heat up. Could this also cause me to have no spark?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't know a bunch about Megasquirt but I have read a little on the HEI 4 pin module. It is designed to control current flow to the coil, then kill the circuit when the G and W wires see voltage go from negative to positive from the reluctor in the distributor, causing the coil to fire . I don't think that G and W are designed to see a constant voltage/current flow, just the transitory "spike" from the reluctor in the distributor, every time the rotor passes the pickup. That's might be why it's getting hot. You might try a bigger resistor before pin G. The module is designed to trigger on very small voltages, less then one I believe, and up to very high. But I don't know that it will work with a square wave setup like you're trying. I think that the Bosch 0 227 100 124 might be a better choice for what you're doing. Described here - http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/Bosch_124.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I went out and disconnected the 12v to the coil and low and behold the HEI module doesn't seem to heat up hardly at all. Thanks for catching that Adimir, However, I still have no spark. could the little time I had that module set up with the constant 12v fry the module. Could there be some settings in my MSQ that are wrong. NewZed, What your saying makes sense with the module needing only small spikes in voltage which could have lead to my module heating up. The only thing is that there have been so many people that have used the HEI module with good results, yet I seem to have the same settings and wiring now yet I have no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adimir Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 from what i have read it takes NO time to fry those things, even a bad ground with no heat sink could fry it. I would get it tested and make sure it works now, im pretty new to this whole thing too so no expert here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I have been reading through more posts and came across this one: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/62746-no-spark/page__p__581434__hl__no+spark__fromsearch__1#entry581434 In this post Moby writes that a 12v switched that is live under cranking should be wired to the (+) terminal on the coil. When I do this my HEI module heats up quickly and I am left with no spark. However when I disconnect the 12v i still have no spark but the module doesn't heat up. Those of you that use the HEI module, with success, do you have the 12v hooked up or not???? I have bought two modules and had them both tested and I'm told they are working fine. Yet NO spark. Is there settings in my MSQ that are wrong. I can't figure out what i have done wrong, since i followed all the directions in Mobys writeup and all my settings are settings I used from the map sharing folders. I just used them to try and get my car to start so I can get to tuning it. If you guys have the time can you look through my MSQ and see if there is something that sticks out as wrong or something I overlooked. Thanks for your guys replies. MS1(l28et) (2).zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 What happens if you disconnect G and W and leave B at 12 V and C at coil -? That would be the typical state for the module in its intended use. From this point, you should be able to connect G to ground and then touch W with power to get a spark. Each touch should take the G-W circuit from zero to positive which should give a spark from the coil. I haven't tried this but in theory that's how the module works,and that's what you're trying to do with MS. Isolate the module from MS, see if it works, if it does, then you can focus on getting the right trigger to it from MS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 What happens if you disconnect G and W and leave B at 12 V and C at coil -? That would be the typical state for the module in its intended use. From this point, you should be able to connect G to ground and then touch W with power to get a spark. Each touch should take the G-W circuit from zero to positive which should give a spark from the coil. I haven't tried this but in theory that's how the module works,and that's what you're trying to do with MS. Isolate the module from MS, see if it works, if it does, then you can focus on getting the right trigger to it from MS. When you say touch W to power to see if it sparks, do you mean a 12 power lead from the battery or a 5 volt lead from the relay board?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Either should work. Are you sure the coil is good? If you had a shorted coil, you might get a hot module and no spark. Check resistance across coil + to coil -. Most coils are in the 1 - 3 ohm range. Another way to test your coil is by connecting coil + to 12 volts (switched with the key On or a direct from battery), placing the coil output (big main wire) ~.040" from ground, then tapping coil - to ground. Each tap should give a spark. I have tried that, and it does work. If you do it while the coil is mounted in the car, you'll be testing your ground back to battery also. Also, make sure that there's not a problem between the coil and the spark plugs. You might have everything up to the coil output, but a problem between the coil and plugs. It would be nice to confirm that your FIDLE signal is switching from zero to five like it should also. You might be able to see it with a voltmeter and turning the distributor but I assume it's a fast switch. Maybe the MS datalog shows what it's doing while you're cranking? If you can isolate each component and confirm it's operation, the answer will show up. It's just a good general way to problem-solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I wont be able to work on the car until saturday afternoon but i figured i would try to trouble shoot with my stim board until then. When I hook up the stim board to the MS and then to Megatune i am not able to get any rpm signal on the gauge in Megatune. What could cause this?? when I go to crank the car over the tach in Megatune seems to be working fine. So I guess my question would be is my stim board damaged or is something in my MS not working properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Im trying to go through and read other posts and figure this out on my own but there seems to be so much mixed information that is all different. For example what are your spark settings like, I copied the Moby's spark settings to attempt to get the car to start, but I came across a post that claims if you have a '83 dizzy you should be able to run a trigger angle of ~60 with no addition. Is this correct because i have around a 60 degree trigger angle with a addition of +45 degrees. This is the post i am referring to: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/58954-ok-now-im-pissed/page__p__539674__hl__testing__fromsearch__1#entry539674 Is there anyone that could help me out on what settings they used to get their cars running, I am getting lost in all the contradictory information I am reading. Thanks for all the posts and your patience with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Any body on here that is running the HEI module that can tell me whether you wired the coil with 12v or not.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adimir Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) Any body on here that is running the HEI module that can tell me whether you wired the coil with 12v or not.?? Black White (BW) wire connected to coil + - - the black and white wire in schematics shows to be switched 12v HEI module connected to coil + (as in the schematic) coil + is connected to a condenser condenser black wire then connects to the base of the distributor coil - is only conected to the HEI module as in the schematic is your coil still good also? with that constant 12v to it, you might have fried it inside. Edited May 9, 2011 by Adimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98cobra+75280z Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I have spark now!!! It was a pull up resistor in my fiddle relay that was overheating the HEI module and my Q5 transistor was also burnt out so i replaced it and now i have spark. I am now concentrating on the fuel side of the install. My fuel pump doesn't seem to want to start. It works if i connect 12v to the wiring harness but the relay board isn't outputting any voltage when the pump is supposed to be primed and when the car is on it also wont output any voltage to turn the actual pump on. Is there any relay board modifications that need to be made to allow the megasquirt to output a voltage to the fuel pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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