Alternate B&W T5 clutch slave set up.

[ThomaZ 5]

When I installed a CSB 350 together with a Borg-Warner T5 NWC gearbox in my 1972 240Z I followed the JTR manual almost to the letter.

 

As recommended by members on this board I used an 7/8" master cylinder (MC) from Wilwood (WIL-260-6765 at Summit). It fits the hole pattern in the firewall without trimming. I installed an AN4 fitting (like Summit RUS-66042-1) and a custom-made steel braided hose down to the stock GM plastic slave cylinder (SC).

 

The set up had several disadvantages. The connection to the plastic SC was fragile. I hade to hammer a bulge into the lower part of the fire wall to get sufficing clearance for the cutch arm.

It was so difficult to bleed. I didn't get it to work well. The clutch disengaged, but just barely.

The SC ended up very close to the down tub from the headers. I made an heat shield but it doubt it worked.

 

After just 1000 kilometers (625 miles) the SC quite and dumped all the fluid out around the pushrods. I was reluctant to just reinstall a new plastic SC so I started to investigate an alternative; and bellow is what I ended up with.

 

I used a SC with aluminum housing from Wilwood (WIL-260-1333 at Summit Racing). It is a pulling clutch SC so it needs a new mount and a modified clutch arm.

 

The stock clutch arm was shorted and an a hole drilled in it for the push rod

I fabricated a SC mount from 1/8" steel. I made some simple cardboard templates an the cut it out with a hack saw and bent it in a wise. It was then stick welded together. I made it to pick up on of the "ears" on the gearbox housing and two mounting bolts on the aft face of the gear box. It is a simple design and I hope the photos will aid if you wish to duplicate it.

 

The stock nipple on the Wilwood SC was replace with an other AN4 nipple and I had a new steel braided hose made. It is 800 mm (31.5") long and has 90 degree bend on both ends.

 

The rest of the photos shows the system installed. It works really well. It was simple to bleed and it disengages and engages distinctively. As can be seen from the photo it clears the firewall and the trans tunnel. It sits higher up in the trans tunnel an clears the exhaust tube with comfortable margin.

 

The disadvantages is that you must remove the bell housing from the engine to be able to remove and install the clutch arm and the clutch arm is hard as nails to drill in! Use a drill press, top quality drill bits, work slowly and use cutting fluid.

 

I have now put approx. 2000 km (1.250 miles) on it and it still works well, so I thought it would be something worthwhile sharing.

 

Best regards

ThomasZ

[Mike C 2]

Nice write up. That is a unique solution and looks like a winner!

[Mike kZ 116]

Nice write-up , thanks!

[Mikelly 115]

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!!

 

I looked at those wilwood setups and scratched my head trying to think of how one would work. Problem I have with the TKO600 is the clutch fork hitting the firewall... I ended up not using the setup at all because of that, and went with the internal bearing setup... This is a much more cost effective solution!

 

Mike

[DavyZ 403]

Excellent solution, ThomasZ!!

 

Davy

[endurorider 10]

nice write up. I too have a t-5 . Im running shorty headers and making my own exhaust. I have had prbloms with bleeding this type system to before on chevys. the best way is to power bleed it. Summit now sales a poor man universal power bleeder for around 80 bucks. Once did a s10 chevy and had to tilt the truck at a pretty good angle with the lift in the shop and power bleed it to get all the air out. Question for you, Is the wilwood master adjustable ?

[ThomaZ 5]

Thank you for your positive comments, Eundurorider! I am not completely sure on what you mean with adjustable, but the only adjustments I am aware of is the treaded rods in both ends of the slave cylinder. That means that you can adjust the total lengthen of the slave cylinder.

 

Best regards

ThomaZ

[IdfMF 10]

Hi Thomaz,

 

I am going to give your SC solution a try. I have one question for you; How much did you cut off from the end of the clutch arm?

[ThomaZ 5]

Unfortunately I did not record any measurement on how much I cut. I test fitted it and trimmed accordingly. It is not critical. I think the top picture in the tread gives you a good indication.

 

The only reason I did cut it was to clear the firewall. And if you look at the bottom picture of the tread; you do not have to cut much to clear. Just cutting of the bowl shaped outer tip would probably be sufficient.

 

Good luck with your installation and please let me know if I can be of any more assistance!

[MY77Z 10]

hi ThomaZ,

thanks alot for this neat install, im having a problem now with my SC, i have to adjust it evry 30 minutes maybe i think i'm gonna give your set-up a try....thanks again

and why not a STICKY ????

[ezzzzzzz 0]

Nice setup. I ran a similar arrangement on my Land Rover. Unfortunately, the Willwood slave cylinder lasted only about 10 months. I ended up fabbing a bracket to use a conventional push type slave cylinder. It has lasted over three years without any more issues. I hope you have better luck with your Wilwood unit.

[ThomaZ 5]

But M77Z, it is a Sticky! (My first and I am shamelessly proud over it!!)

 

Well, it has gone over six months since installed and the installation now has approx 4000 km (2.500 miles) on it with no problems what so ever, so lets hope I am more lucky then you where ezzzzzzz!

[MY77Z 10]

OOHH ok, didnt notice that its a Sticky....thanks any way

[MY77Z 10]

can i use a 4 AN hose?? insetad of the 800mm??

[ThomaZ 5]

You kind of need both. I hade my hose made by a local workshop that specialize in hydraulic hoses and fittings. If you do the same they will ask two things:

1) How long do you want the hose? (800 mm (31.5") long) and

 

2) What type of fittings do you want at the ends (AN4 fittings with 90 degree bend at both ends).

[MY77Z 10]

aha i get it now, mine is a stock 1989 mustang tranny, should be the same thing no? which is better a wilwood SC set-up or a Mcleod bearing set-up??

[ThomaZ 5]

I presume it is still a Borg & Warner T5. To my knowledge (and I hope that other members on the board can correct me if I am wrong) the T5 mounted in Ford and Chevy hade the same external dimensions. So therefore the Wilewood set up should work for you too.

 

What is “best†is a matter of personal preference. I think this set up (as Mikelly pointed out) is cost effective. The Wilwood slave cost $74 at Summit, the Mcleod hydraulic throwout bearing $376. An other advantage with the Wilwood slave is that it is much easier to service and replace than a Hydraulic throwout bearing.

 

Pros and cons with hydraulic throwout bearings have been discussed before; a search will give you lots of reading.

[MY77Z 10]

guys, what master cylinder is the best to use???

[MY77Z 10]

i've just ordered all the parts needed to do the wilwood swap, should recieve them in 5 days maybe (im in Kuwait)

and i'll post photos after the installations. again, thanks ThomaZ for this great write up.

[MY77Z 10]

ok, urgent question????

i'm installing the SC now and i have a question about it, should it push the fork toward the engine block or pull it toward the tranny?? i have a ford T5 Tranny that came on my 1989 mustang??

[ThomaZ 5]

If you are using my set up above the SC shall be pulling towards the tranny.

[MY77Z 10]

and for the ford tranny, does it have to pull or push the fork??

[ThomaZ 5]

To my knowledge it has the same set up regarding the clutch fork as the T5 mounted on Chevy engines.

[MY77Z 10]

well, i dont think so because its not working i think i need a push style SC for my ford tranny, i'll stop working now coz i can't come up with any ideas, tired as hell if any of you guys have ideas, please help me out here.

[ThomaZ 5]

Sorry to hear that. I have never worked on a Ford T5 so I can’t tell for sure. A few thoughts;

I you study the system that you removed, doesn’t it give you any clues to in what direction the fork arm should move?

 

Could you describe what’s not working in more detail? Should we assume that the cutch hydraulic system has been connected, properly bleed, and the SC moves when you push down the clutch pedal, but the clutch don’t disengage?

 

I you try to push the fork arm by hand, can you feel the resistance from the clutch springs? That could give you a clue to which direction the clutch arm should move.