tyson
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Posts posted by tyson
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Sigh, why can't this be easy?
So, called Fidanza and they asked for some pictures. Drove up to the shop and found out there was mis-communication between the shop and the phone guys. It's drilled for the pins, but they aren't in the right spot. The new SBC cover fits on the old flywheel just fine, so obviously Fidanza goofed. Everything else was in spec, so it wasn't the wrong flywheel (that we can tell)
I'm learning way more about clutches and bolts than I ever cared to know. I just wanted to unbolt and rebolt.
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Alright, I called them and they said the flywheel had no holes drilled in it for the dowel. Only enough holes for the pressure plate bolts, which is why they figured the application would have used shoulder bolts.
So ummm.....I'm really confused. They also said they wouldn't be at all comfortable drilling it for the pin, and I don't blame em.
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What happened to the alignment dowels? That's their function.
Ya know, after I left I wondered the same thing a bit...The flywheel came with dowels, and I figured they already pressed them in.
I didn't want to call and insult their intelligence....but maybe I should.
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Hopefully someone can help me out here, I'm in an area where I barely know anything (different types of bolts and pressure plates etc)
I recently brought my new Fidanza aluminum flywheel and new South Bend Clutch to a local clutch shop to have them balanced.
The fidanza flywheel by itself is spot on.
When they bolted the pressure plate on the flywheel, the holes in the pressure plate were a tad larger than the bolts for the flywheel (I even got new bolts at Nissan) which allows slight variations in the pressure plate alignment each time it's bolted and unbolted.
The shop (reputable place, pretty much all they do is transmissions, resurfacing and balancing) says that it needs a shoulder bolt to be balanced correctly. I tried a few places around town, even a specialty fastener store and nobody has anything--especially with a short enough shoulder to not interfere with the flywheel threads.
As always, ANY help is appreciated!
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That's what I figured. My impact isn't the strongest, and it wouldn't budge em. I had to clamp the flywheel, put a wrench on a bolt and use my foot while pulling on the frame rail for support.
Hopefully I get everything back from the shop today and can begin putting things back together.
The flywheel bolts would be tough, red loctite on those. I wasn't about to mess around with a loose flywheel. I'd typically just throw an impact on those and let it work away at them... without an impact wrench it would be tough going.
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No worries, even before I found out the news on the flywheel I was considering getting the fidanza. The machine shop said the flywheel would have probably held additional drilling, but they weren't 100% confident in it--enough to make me just pull the trigger.
I do wonder how the engine will rev up now, should be instant throttle response (both ways). I'm really not looking forward to clutch break-in =(
BTW, I was wondering about the throwout bearing, is it just a standard one from a 280ZX non-turbo?
I think the hardest part of the removal was getting the driveshaft bolts out, had to stick a wrench up there and spin the tire with my foot to losen em. Removing the flywheel bolts was also a beyotch.
Oh yeah, the car needs a new clutch fork dust boot. Anyone know if those are installed from inside the bellhousing, or can I just slip it on after the car is assembled?
Interesting note about the flywheel... I had it balanced by a local shop here with a good reputation. Sucks to hear it was out, though 20grams shouldn't be considered significant!
The aluminum flywheel is going to completely change the car, can't wait to hear your feedback. Though the hardest part will be breaking in your clutch slowly I suspect. A note for you, the throwout bearing was replaced at the same time the CFDF went in. ~40,000 miles ago. The pilot bushing would have been new with the engine rebuild a few hundred miles before you bought the car.
Wish I could swing by and give you a hand reinstalling, its not too bad a job once you do it a few dozen times!
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Well it's spring.
I ordered a South Bend Stage II Endurance clutch, rated for 400ft/lbs.
I dropped off the flywheel and new pressure plate to be balanced, the shop said the flywheel was off by about 20 grams and they were hesitant to do any significant balancing since the flywheel already had significant work done (17.75lbs).
So, I ordered a Fidanza aluminum flywheel which arrived yesterday. I brought it to the machine shop today for balancing.
Cost of clutch $300
Cost of flywheel $310
Cost of machining/balancing ~$50
I can't wait to get it back on the road. I'm not looking forward to the reinstall though.
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Well, I pulled the tranny today.
For anyone who reads this now or in the future, the centerforce dual friction clutch is NOT a good clutch if you plan on running higher horsepower. My clutch still had PLENTY of meat on it, but ~250hp/tq was too much for it. The surfaces are all clean with no contamination which tells me the only reason it was slipping was poor grip. Good for most NA guys, but anyone running a modified turbo L6 should avoid CFDF clutches.
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Well, I meant to update earlier.
I was literally typing in my CC info for another clutch when SBC finally called me back. I ended up going with the stage 2 whatever model is good for 400ft/lbs. I did learn their one above that uses the 350Z pressure plate and a 250mm clutch.Is it always reccomended to have the flywheel balanced with the pressure plate, or should I just machine the current flywheel and call it done?
Note: I decided against doing the 250mm swap--for now. Just ends up being a couple hundred more than I'd like to spend to do it the right way. Ended up reading lots of bad reviews about the cheaper Ebay clutches, and since they really only cater to the import crowd with less hp I decided to spend a little more. I did find an almost scam because there's an "eClutchmasters" on e-bay, which is NOT the same clutchmasters everyone knows.
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^ Now this is some quality, quality information! Thank you Xnke!
I searched Hybridz for some time using various terms (mainly subject containing "clutch") and was surprised at how little data or reviews we actually have collected. A few posts where people review a clutch, but it's based off a few hundred or thousand miles with no further information.
For clarification,The 350Z/VQ35 (and I'm guessing 37?) pressure plates bolt up to the L28 flywheel (or compadible) without any modifications?
The clutch itself (and throwout) still needs to be for one of our transmissions though, correct?
We should get a thread going where people post their flywheel/plate/clutch setup with their engine/trans and horsepower. Miles driven, styles driven and critique of setup. I could see it being pretty benefitial as there are more than a few threads where people tried different clutches that just couldn't hold their power (or for long).
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Example:
Is this clutch any good? I'm very skeptical at the price of $160 for a complete clutch + pressure plate, especially one that is supposed to hold 400hp/tq. But, ya never know.
Searching Hybridz gave me only 1 thread without any long term info.This clutch might be the same thing, similar rating and price
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Clutch options don't change as much as you think for 40 year old cars. South bend clutch is selling a 350z pressure plate with a 300zxt 240mm clutch disk as their 390ft-lb option, and any clutch you could use on the KA24DE will work just as well...they claim a heavy duty d21 pickup truck clutch will hold 400ft-lbs behind the KA in a 240sx.
In other words, nothing has changed.
While I understand what you are saying, things do change.
Companies release new products, prices change, availability changes. Example: Only a few years ago I always heard centerforce DF clutches were great, now lately it seems many aren't happy with them. Heck, most of them don't even advertise what they are capable of. Arizona Z Car's page just states their clutch is capable of "big horsepower". Well, big horsepower for a NA Z guy might be 180whp, for others it might be 600whp. Has AZC's clutch been changed in the last few years? Who knows?
What are the best buys right now for those of us who are putting down moderate amounts of power?
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I know this has been discussed millions of times in the past. I did a search of the entire forums and it looks like there hasn't been a recent post in the last 12 months about clutches for those of us with higher horsepower turbo L28s. While old topics are OK on some subjects, I think clutches are one of those always evolving parts. Sometimes X clutch from 5 years ago was junk and it's a reputable product today (and vice versa).
I'm currently looking for one to handle what I hope my Z can put out, which is around 350ft/lbs (so the clutch should hold around 400). I'm using a stock lightened flywheel. I'd also like the clutch to not drain my bank account because we all know there's some clutches that are $2,000 that are just as good as a $300 one (You supra guys know this all too well!)
Requirements.
about 400ft/lbs of grip
Be able to be driven on the street
Be able to be driven on the occasional track event or autocross/drag pass.
Be reliable
I was planning on getting one from South Bend Clutch, but they apparantly do not like to respond to e-mails and calling results in speaking to a human, only to be sent to voicemail.
Are there any good deals out there right now? What are the best options these days?
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I don't want to give you hope, but if you find someone selling an entire set of wheels I am in Minneapolis and looking for some. I'd be open towards having the staggered look as well.
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Not a whole lot has been happening to the Z now that it's getting cold out and school has started.
The clutch is officially on it's last legs, under 8psi boost it now slips. I'm thinking of getting a South Bend clutch as I've heard good things about them. I'm looking at maybe getting a lightweight flywheel while I'm there, the one in the car is supposed to weigh around 17lbs. South Bend's flywheel is 8lbs if I recall, anyone have any input on going that light with a stiff racing clutch?
I bought 2 sets of the Z Car Creations tow hooks/tie downs mentioned in post #10, I'm very happy with them.
Total cost $90
The Kumho Ecsta XS's lose a LOT of their grip near freezing, but still not a bad tire when warm.
Other than that, I'll probably be putting the Z on jackstands in a week or two.
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Hmm I'm interested.
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Same old Same old, work and datsuns ok and an m3 track car, Ian and i where talking about you the otter dat! Do you still have Thatcher vind we made?
Yeah I have that video somewhere, I'll have to try and dig it up.
Tell Ian that I said hello. The last time we spoke you two weren't on good terms.
Have any trips to the USA planned out?
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Valve cover breather is under a vacuum, that's why it's supposed to go to the intake. and that's also why the pcv should be easier to open, it has a vacuum acting on it since it's connected to the intake.
The crank case can build up pressure, and if you can blow open your pcv valve with your breath, then it's more than likely good. It is possible for gunk to get in the spring area and harden from what I've been told. Never experienced it myself.
Blu, the valve cover just has a filter breather on it. It's vented to the air.
I didn't try blowing the valve open with my breath, and I doubt I'd be able to.
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My L28ET gives some smoke out of the valve breather while driving around, not a terrible amount but I can smell it at times.
Yesterday I checked & cleaned the PCV valve under the intake and noticed that when blowing compressed air through the valve it takes a moderate amount of pressure to open (I have no idea what PSI).
Now, if the valve cover breather is vented to the atmosphere, the lower end shouldn't have much more (if any) pressure than the top end correct? I'm wondering if the PCV valve never opens because of this, and therefore sends all the fumes/vapor out the valve cover breather?
Thoughts?
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Nice build is this mister tyson my old mate
Heey what's up Frank? It's been a long time!
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For instance, this system puts the straps under the bar in the foreground, so it directs much of the strapping force down.
Try a bit of weight and see!
That's the setup I've used in the past but it wasn't possible due to this dyno being an in-ground type. The nice thing was not having to worry about clearing ramps to get it on there!
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Gotta love the dyno! Correct, the clutch is CFDF, it probably has 30,000 miles on it. However, based on the video and the tie downs on the dyno, I suspect your problem is wheelspin. Is there anything pulling the car down, or just those shallow angle straps heading backwards?
Valve cover breather... most people aren't fans (myself included) of the vented to atmosphere PCV system on a turbo car. Lots of info on this site about options. Something I never got around to.
246hp/266ft-lbs at 8.2PSI isn't bad at all for that setup. Once you've got it sorted and throw some more boost at it, things should get very very interesting... That turbo isn't even working hard at 8psi, and its certainly not in its higher efficiency ranges.
Basically the only weight on the car, is it's weight on the rollers. We tried looking for attachment points for the straps and the control arms were the only things that would work. When I get my hooks I'll go back, and maybe even put a couple hundred pounds of weight in the back to help.
I've been looking at getting a catch can for the PCV, especially since I'm going to be painting the valve cover soon.
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I did a few pulls at ~8.5psi and then turned up the Eboost2 to 10.5PSI and did a few rapid freeway pulls in 3rd and 4th gear with no signs of slippage. I need to do more testing before it gets back on the rollers.
Either way, I ordered 2 sets of hooks from Z Car Custom so that I can strap it down better.
http://www.zccjdm.com/catalog.php/azcarbum/dt55266/pd1761636/240Z_FRONT_REAR_TIE_DOWN_KIT_
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After watching the video, I think it *might* be the tires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJzXNlGHDkQ&list=UUJ8Bi4XgzR__v8Xpw40GYyQ&index=1&feature=plcp
The Z as it sits lacks decent tie-down spots so we strapped to the control arms. It may not have been pulling down with enough weight to keep the tires from slipping? I'm going to do a freeway pull with some weight in the rear (to be certain) and see if it is the clutch, or the tires.
Either way, I'm ordering some tie-down brackets.
Shoulder bolts needed for flywheel/pp balance?
in Drivetrain
Posted
Now I have Fidanza telling me that it's not a problem with their flywheel, and it must be a problem with the pressure plate. The new pressure plate I got from SBC matches perfectly with my old flywheel. The same, brand new plate does not match up with the Fidanza. Fidanza is trying to tell me to run without the pins (which my machine shop strongly recommends against, and I don't blame them) or to find a new pressure plate which will match the Fidanza.
Their customer service is making me want to just send the damn thing back to them.