R3VO 3VOM
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Posts posted by R3VO 3VOM
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For a while I ran the factory sensor in a maxima adapter (junkyard special). Just splice the adapter into the stock upper radiator hose, plug in the factory sensor and you're good with the factory gauge.
My reasoning was I have a wiring specialties harness (way too expensive for what it is but I was young and didn't know then what I know now) and it's stripped of everything non-essential. However, it has no provision for a temp gauge output yet uses the factory 1 wire sensor in the harness along with the 2 wire for the ECU. So they're using it for something but I'm not sure what.
I have since switched gauges and running my autometer sender in an upper coolant neck spacer (much like the ones readily available for the SR20) but I digress.
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Just ordered all the parts to install the NP440 into my Z. They should be in this Friday.
After much debate I decided to go with a hydraulic clutch release bearing as the stock bellhousing does not have a provision for mounting a hydraulic slave cylinder. Stock Chevy vehicles used a Z-bar mechanical linkage for clutch actuation.
It seems there are fixes out there and custom made brackets on internet forums to do so. But with all the fabrication work I'm doing on my "project" Z, school and work, the last thing I want to do is fabricate something else. Novak does make a conversion kit for Chevy bellhousings but its $208.00. With careful shopping I managed to get all my parts, new, for $190 (including a remote bleeder assembly for the throw out bearing as I have 0 clue how you're supposed to bleed those things otherwise!). Not a huge savings but anything helps.
Transmission is assembled but some of the linkages are out of adjustment so I will need to look into those. Also will need to have a ring cut for the bellhousing. It seems I have a mismatch of equipment with my setup. The front retainer is a smaller diameter than the bellhousing mating hole. The larger hole indicates it's a truck housing as it should be. But the small retainer points to someone swapping it along the way with a car one.
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Curious on what these things go for. Its hard to find old ads of them for sale.
Came out of a ZX turbo with 90k miles. I have the driveshaft, transmission (complete from bellhousing to tailshaft), shifter, shift fork, crossmember and all the sensors. Don't have slave cylinder, clutch, pressure plate or flywheel.
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Are the gear ratios 3.09, 1.67, 1.00 and .73 ? Is it a cast-iron case, or aluminum? Weight? Any guesses on torque-capacity?
Yes, those are the correct ratios.
The early Mopar units had a cast iron case. This was later switched to aluminum sometime in the 70's. All the ones made for GM trucks are this later aluminum case.
I don't have a weight figure as of now. I can tell you it's wayyy lighter than the TH350 that's in the car now! I'll weigh it and report back once I get it ready to put up in the car.
Torque capacity..... Well the A833 version was put factory behind the 426 Hemi if that's any indication of internal strength (Now, this was with an 18 spline input shaft as opposed to GM's 10 spline). But it's been proven in the muscle car world above 600ftlb in stock form. They do make stronger internals for the A833 which can be popped in the case of the NP440 (as they are basically the same transmission).
Currently I'm running a Doug Nash 5-speed, where 5th gear is actually 1:1. It's the exact antithesis of what I've been advocating about wide-ratio vs. close-ratio. But I wonder... could 4th gear be replaced with overdrive, retaining 5th gear as 1:1?
This I could not say as I'm no transmission expert. But in theory however it is doable. That's exactly what New Process did with the late A833/NP440. Swapped out third with a new ratio, swapped the shift levers on the outside between third and fourth and bam, new transmission.
I can't stand a 1:1 final drive. Spinning 3k rpm down the highway isn't my idea of a good time. Maybe for a drag car but for a street car that see's the track sometimes it sucks.
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I did a forum search on this transmission and got no results so I thought I'd document the swap and comment on driving impressions.
The transmission in question is a New Process 440, or NP440. Its an overdrive 4 speed derived from the Mopar version called the A833. The A833 in early years was similar to a Muncie 4-speed in terms of functionality (external shift, bellhousing pattern, etc.) maintaining a 1:1 final drive. However, in later years it became an overdrive 4-speed with the final drive reduced to .73:1. The 440 was a GM version of the A833 with GM 10 spline input and 27 spline output shafts. It came in all manual '81-'86 GM trucks. To my current knowledge, all came with factory Hurst shifters. They came in two bellhousing bolt patterns. The first (early years; '81~'83) being the traditional GM manual style like a Muncie/T5; bellhousings from the Muncie/T5 will swap with a little modification. The second however is unique to the NP440; these are the later model versions (pictured below). If you are looking at one of these make sure you get the bellhousing!
What's interesting to note is that the traditional 4th gear spot inside the transmission is still a 1:1 ratio, but third gear spot is the .73:1 listed final drive. What NP did is swap the third gear ratio and make old third gear fourth gear and old fourth gear third gear. Make sense? This was done via switching the shift linkages on the outside of the transmission to change the order of the shifts.
Being a truck transmission the ratios aren't quite ideal for a car, with first gear being a steep 3.09:1. However, they are nearly the exact same ratios as a 700R4 of comparable years. I've read the only annoying part of these ratios is the first to second shift is a huge drop.
I picked mine up last Friday for $400 complete with everything. Bellhousing, Hurst shifter, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate, linkages, lower cover plate and shift fork. My reason for buying being I want to go back to manual. T5's are very expensive (in my area) in the GM pattern and the Ford ones aren't much better. They are cheap when the syncros are worn out. T56's are way out of my budget. Muncie/Borg Warner 4-speeds don't gain me anything as my car currently has a TH350 with the 1:1 final drive. The NP440 with its .73:1 final drive will drop my cruising RPM, according to my calculations based on stock R200 gearing and tire size, approximately 1000rpm which should increase my gas mileage, among other things, tremendously.
Currently have the Wilwood master cylinder and new slave cylinder on order. Will update once I get it all installed.
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What do you guys do to keep your starters from heatsoaking? Everywhere on the web seem to be hit or miss with some fixes working for some and other fixes working for others and some people not even having their cars running right in the first place.
A little background:
I just finished a vortec 350 swap into my '76 Z using the full JTR catalog. I have wrapped block hugger headers and wrapped exhaust (except for the flange where the two meet which is right beside the starter). The starter is a stock GM unit. The vehicle the engine came out of never ran into any of these issues (got it from my father for free); it was however in a truck with long tube headers and thus more airspace around the starter.
The car will start up perfectly when cold. Choke and everything work perfectly. Runs like a top no issues driving down the road for 2+ hours. It won't however even crank when hot. Just get the click from the relay. I get a voltage drop from 12V to 9V upon start. Does this signal a bad battery (although it cranks perfectly after sitting for a month)? Or just a rise in resistance in the starter with heat?
So is it as simple as one of those starter wraps, should I look at smaller starters, New starter solenoid?
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Save yourself some money on the oil pan and send the stock unit off the RB to Pat1 here on Hybrid Z. He'll modify it to a rear sump with matching pickup. Way cheaper than any of those pans and work is grade A.
I'm running the McKinney kit and like a lot of reviews I see I had to shim up the driver side mount with a spacer to get the oil pan off the crossmember. I also had to heavily modify the transmission crossmember to work with the stock speedometer cable.
I haven't seen many using the CX kit. I know in the early days they sucked. Saw numerous kits snap at the welds. But it seems they have turned their quality with their exhaust manifolds so maybe that improvement has carried over to their swap kits as well.
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Was rolling around the interweb and found this small picture thread about a Civic with a Legend V6 mid-engine swap. Scrolled down and thought this was cool. Wasn't really reading just looking at the pictures. Then I saw the 7th picture and said "Hey, I recognize those strut tubes". Sure enough, 240Z struts.
http://www.carbuildindex.com/28542/1984-honda-civic-rear-wheel-drive-mid-engine-v6-wide-body-build/
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I'll soon be in the same boat with my 17x8 +22 wheels.
What is your suspension setup? If you're on stock sized springs you'll run into clearance issues on the front spring perch with a +20. You need around a +0 in a x9 (I think) to clear the spring perch. So a 1" spacer should do the trick.
I mocked up my x8's and with a +22 they JUST cleared the stock suspension setup; way closer than you'd ever want to run because they had a piece of paper width between the lip and the strut tube. And you couldn't mount a tire on it because of the spring perch. So I'll be running 1" or 1.5" spacers with my setup. You can reverse calculate from there I'm sure.
Thing to watch out for on the front is the hub bore. Its 73mm. Most wheel spacers are 66mm. Just make sure you get a spacer with at least a 73mm centerbore. I think the largest I've seen them with before was 78mm and 81mm.
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Its not really a horsepower goal necessitating my want to change up to 3" all around. Just a matter of wanting to get rid of my 12 hose clamp current piping, really dented intercooler in there now, and a now 3" turbo outlet and 3" intake inlet.
I'm leaning towards the 28x12 because I know it'll fit and clear the hood hinges, but I'm curious to see if anyone has managed a 31x12 without welding new bends on the end tanks. I think to run a 31" wide unit you have to weld on new bends which is also why I'm leaning towards the 28x12.
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I'm shopping around for a new intercooler. My current one is small, old, and all dented. It worked for my stock turbo setup going from 2" turbo outlet to 2.5" piping to 3" intake inlet. But now that I have changed turbos to a 3" outlet unit I'm looking to change up the entire system to be a 3" all the way to the intake.
I see that CXRacing sells a 28x12 unit for the S30 chassis that fits nicely in front of the core support but it seems they are over priced compared to some of the comparable "Ebay" intercoolers. (I think this may be because the stock is low so they jack the price up so few will buy until they get new stock in. I've noticed this on a lot of other "Ebay" brand products in my random searches; things that go for $100 will be priced at $1000 for a time then back down to $100).
There are a lot of 31x12 units on the market. How do these fit? I'm worried that with 3" silicon elbows it will be too wide and contact the factory hood hinges. I could get one welded with new end outlets but I'd prefer to use something off the shelf if possible.
I've searched the forum and found pictures and threads from way far back, but nobody lists the intercooler sizes they are using. Anyone have any input?
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The lip doesn't necessarily mean more brake clearance (to my knowledge anyway). Usually it's face construction that determines this.
More than likely the two different style lips are equal. With a reverse lip, the drop center is behind the face. Whereas on a stepped lip the drop center is everywhere basically past the outer rim edge. The thing is with a stepped lip, the face of the wheel is actually smaller than with a reverse lip. For example (rough but hopefully the idea comes across), 17" reverse lip uses a 17" face. However, a 17" stepped lip uses 16" face and the other 1" of diameter comes from the stepped lip. Because of this, both would fit about the same diameter disc (assuming that the drop center of the 17" reverse lip was around 1" as well).
But this is also assuming the stepped lip doesn't step back up immediately after the face. I've seen wheels that do this and ones that step up at the very back edge as well. So if it steps up right after the face I guess there is more clearance for the disc. But caliper clearance would be due to the face construction more than lip style.
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You will need spacers as you said. You'll rub on that front stock spring perch. I think you'll need at least a 32mm spacer for that +40; A lot of x8's need at least at least +10 to clear. A lot of people run a +0 which fit fine.
Bolt on spacers are fine in my opinion. I run 1" ones on the back of my Z with 350hp and no problems. Just make sure they are the bolt on kind and you check the torque on the nuts from time to time. I have heard bad things about slip on spacers with stock length studs though.
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This is so awesome. Good job! If I'm honest I wasnt so sure you could pull it off given the extreme specs but you are definitely proving me wrong. I love it. Looking forward to seeing everything together.
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If you haven't yet, snoop around this site. You will find a lot of the info you need for the swap. If you are trying to save money (which is how I interpret your list (I totally understand. I have a lot in my 2 swaps). If not and you have money to blow, disregard my post):
Driveshaft: I agree with the above. Just take the driveshaft to a shop and have it shortened. You already have it; use what you have.
Throttle cable: there are a few on the market that will work. Mckinney, arizona Z car (I believe works with RB) and many universal kits.
My best advice though, go to the junkyard and get the cable out of a late 90's Sentra. Thing is like 5 feet long. Has the correct end for the RB throttle body and works with both standard and "Greddy" style plenums. All you have to do is remove the entire stock linkage (firewall bracket and all), modify the slot on your pedal for that end of the cable, and drill 2 holes for the bracket on the inside of the firewall. There's a thread on here about doing it but I can't for the life of me find it. I paid $6.00 for it at the junkyard; cheapest cable by far.
FMIC: Unless you want to pay an arm and a leg for the Mckinney kit which fits right in or dont have access to a welder to weld aluminum, just buy a universal sized one (like the 30'x24'x5'. The most common size basically) and build a little bracket off the core support and you're done. Run 90 degree silicon couplers on both ends and route it right through the core support holes for the factory air intake. I found all my stuff for $100 on the local CL.
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MAN! Those things stick out far with the adapters. But those aren't the skinniest adapters in the world either. I'm not sure even IMSA flares would cover those things.
Hopefully you can get it sorted though. Should look amazing once it's all said and done.
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I really don't give a rats behind what is available today. My original question was asking if there is any truly knowledgable person out there that has an idea where tire/wheel sizes will be 10 years from now.
Your question by definition has no right or wrong answer; its subjective to what people think and what you want to believe. Nobody truly knows where the manufactures (which is what drives a lot of the tire availability) will be in 10 years. We could be at mega cars running 24's from the factory based on the current trend that everyday cars like accords can come with 17's/18's from the factory. Or we could be at micro cars running 14's because gas goes up to $10 a gallon in 10 years.
What I'm trying to get at is nobody can tell you a "this is where it will be 100%". It will only be guesses. You are asking someone to predict the future.
Making an educated guess, go to 18's if you're worried about the future. This is based on how large modern cars are and how they have grown since the same model in the 90's. 18's are common place now. Google a 90's accord on 18's and a 2000's accord on 18's. You can see the size difference in the car. I see "stanced" 350Z's tucking 20's now. So my advice (and I'm no expert (so my advice may not classify as knowledgeable here) but I'm not oblivious to trends) go 18's. If you dont want your Z to look like a donk go 17's. They may be the new 15's in 10 years.
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The RB20 can also use KA24E injectors.
I haven't yet found if they are the exact same as some places say they are and some say the KA are 260cc while the RB20 are 270cc.
But I do have a lot of friends with RB20's that have had injectors clog and replaced them with KA24E units and they perform as stock.
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We just switched to 16x8 +0 w/ 255-50-16 Hankook Z214s from 17x7 -47 w 50mm spacer adapters (essentially a +3mm offset)
I think you mean +47. A -47mm offset with 50mm adapters would yield an equivalent -97 offset. +47 with 50mm would yield the specified +3 equivalent.
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Got one. Thanks
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Could take the stubs to a local machine shop to be drilled to 5 lug. All they have to do is be able to find the center and use 1 existing hole as a start point to make the others. I've had a set of wheels drilled from 5x114 to 4x114 by a local shop before. $30 a wheel. As long as they have flat backs they can be drilled to a new pattern. Then just get your drums drilled to match and you're set. Or rotors if you're running rear disc.
My fronts are drilled stock rotors with the Z31 hubs and rotor spacers and rear drilled drums to 5 lug with no issues.
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His car's build thread is actually where that picture I posted is from.
Those wheels look awesome!
But as they are such a deep offset, why not just convert to 5 lug? Save you that offset that the spacers would add.
You'll have to mock them up to be certain you have the space though; you may have enough flare to be able to run them. I had some 4 to 5 lug on the rear of my Z for a while. I got them off Ebay.
There seems to be 2 schools of thought when it comes to these. The 1" versions and the bolt together 2" versions. I bought the 1" versions:
After having them arrive I found that the 4x114 holes were so small no sockets I had would fit in them to allow me to tighten the inner lug nut. So I had to drill them out 2 sizes to get a 3/8 drive socket to fit on. You have to use the lug nuts they provide because they are the only lug nuts I've ever found that come with a 17mm head in the 12x1.25 thread pitch. But they worked fine for my on road/mountain driving.
The bolt together ones are at minimum 1.5" but usually 2" but are probably a more straight forward install than the 1" that needs modification (or a custom socket with super narrow walls). So these would only work if you had an extra 2" to spare. My thinking is you'll have at most 1" if any at all.
I'm now running 5 lug drilled stub axles in the rear. I got them with a second shell I bought. Nicely done. Look just like this:
Front I'm running Z31 hubs, but that moves the hub face about 30mm out. T3 sells 5 lug hubs with stock offset. But this is assuming you wont have space for added 1" spacers; but you may have enough room under the flare. Have to mock them up and see.
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I hope these are the flares you are referencing. No way those sizes in those specs will fit under anything in the "ZG flare family" unless fully custom.
I'm with JMortensen on the IMSA flares. Those sizes should fill out IMSA sized flares nicely. Unless the ones you have are similar in width.
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That is looking good, give us some rim data and expected tire sizes. I don't really want to cut and flare my car either.
Thanks. I have a flared 280Z but only because it was all rusty. This one is 100% rust free body so I don't plan to cut this one.
Wheels are Work VSXX 17x8 +22 and 17x8.5 +10. Front will have 1" spacer and rear will probably get a small slip on.
I'm thinking of going with a 205/45, 225/45 or 225/40. Haven't made up my mind yet. Good thing about 17" is you can get nearly any size and profile you want. My flared car is on 16" and there is very limited choices.
NP440 4-Speed Transmission
in Gen I & II Chevy V8 Tech Board
Posted
One part down a few more to go. This is the item you need if you plan to run a truck bellhousing with a car transmission (the NP440 isn't a car transmission but mine has the car bearing carrier which I suspect has been swapped before me). Why would you want to run a truck bellhousing? It easily allows you to run the 11" clutch (versus the 10.4") without the costly 621 bellhousing. Although it's now being remanufactured, it's around $250. A truck belhousing can be had for cheap (free to $50) and this ring at $30 and you have yourself an 11" clutch bellhousing for cheap.