Daeron
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Posts posted by Daeron
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I havent done it yet, but I was planning on taking my stock 280 tank, and using a spare L series oilpan (as long as the metals can be welded together) and building a nice, baffled sump either with a rear outlet or a significant downward slope if its a front outlet. I even had thoughts of utlizing the two LOW FUEL lights my Z has (probly a fluke from a PO) one in the main tank, and the other in the sump
You could also use a surge tank; plenty of info on how to put one of those togheter around here.
If you feel a need to replace the turbo, and have an upgrade, then yah.. i guess injectors ARE pretty much on the list.. I just wanted to make it clear that even bone stock components WILL run better on well tuned standalone EFI; especially with proper manifold setups.
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I typed out the words "To the best of my knowledge, none of that stuff should be different."
Then I thought, I don't want to have to stick my foot in my mouth.. so I searched on motorsport. Looks like yer boned, and they are all different. sorry.
Hatch glass and windshield seals
Rear Deck inner and outer seals, and taillight seals
Main 70-78 Weatherstripping page, Motorsport Auto
Anyone know how radical the differences are? Could it be gotten away with?
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What I want to know is how does somebody build and engine like that, regardless of what it really puts out, without becoming a member on hybridz.org along the way?
people have been building 400 horsepower Z-cars for FAR longer than hybridZ has been around (including some of our more illustrious members here) so the simple fact that he is not known here means nothing. I've never seen pete brock post here either, yanno?
if the 1970 chassis is straight, in good shape, and rust free, and it has a forged crank and good internals, and a good turbo and exhaust manifold (we're about to break through with mind bogglingly better intake manifolds anyhoo) AND an acceptable standalone EFI (I didnt see him mention any branding on it, he seemed impressed that it was DISTRIBUTORLESS and not that it was wolf3d/MS/HAltech/whathaveyou) then $8K doesnt seem to steep.. even IF this vehicle gets thrown onto a dyno and hits 450, even 350 horse.. the potential is there and parts have been bought. IF the head, the pistons, the injectors, the exhaust manifold, and the engine management is all up to par, then this car couldn't be TOO far from getting over 500, and it sure COULD be capable of more.
Granted, the CL ad is one that rings alarm bells left and right, but if I Were looking to find a half finished project car I would CERTAINLY take a look at this vehicle... if you can get a detailed idea what pistons are in it from him, and find the rest out for yourself.. you never know what you might find. IT CERTAINLY doesn't seem to be the type of deal that will sell immediately.. some people will NEVER understand that craigslist is the last place to play the scheisty salesman.
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but you seem the best way to get an aluminum block @_@
If you get him a good set of solid models from which to work, he is.
Otherwise, it is
No one else seems to believe it a worthwhile investment of time or effort.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if we don't keep this thread somewhat "realistic" then it will get shut down for the BS pipe dream that it basically is.
Xnke, IF you could somehow get the blueprints for the P-G head, would that simplify the affair?
I haven't the time at the moment of this post, but the next time I review this thread I Will re read the whole thing and see if i can wrap my head around finding a way to make these solid models happen.
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my question was out of curiosity; it seemed someone else was asking for just that but I failed to notice seeing that you were willing to DO that.
I may well have missed a vital point earlier in the thread; last night, I must confess, I only read the last 2 weeks worth of posts and not the whole thing. I can't say I am wanting to be squeezed in, it was more of an idle question than one of imminent desire.
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heres one on me:
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the bearing is bad if it spins with any roughness whatsoever, or if it makes a grinding/rolling noise (as opposed to an un-impeded rolling noise) when rolled in your hand; when in doubt, replace it.. but, like I said, may as well wait until a U-joint inspection and changing your oils before jumping to that conclusion, since it IS such a PITA.
Regarding the carb tuning, I wasn't realizing that the SU's were a temporary solution when I went into that.. I was just trying to convey how easy it is to troubleshoot a problem that can sound like yours, and presume your carbs are "good enough" only to find months, or sometimes years down the road, that it was the carbs the whole time. As long as you are aware of that possibility, then you are clear enough.
Hope I have been of some help, and good luck.
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your vibration/noise problem might well be an issue with any of the U joints in the drive shaft or half shafts (more likely driveshaft) OR it could be a bad throwout bearing. Changing the trans and diff oil is never a bad idea, but if you do so and it doesnt go away then I would check any U joints for any slop, and if they seem fine then it might be worth dropping the trans (or pulling the engine if you think thats easier?) to get a good luck at that throwout bearing. Never hurts to know where your clutch is at, either.
The carburetors NEED to be properly synchronized and tuned.. there is a WORLD of difference between a Z car with SU's that run OK and SUs that are REALLY properly tuned, and its less than $100 worth of tools to do it right. Look up SU tuning and you can find more information from someone who knows more about it than I; carburetors are something I haven't handled on any of my own cars, just Z-cars belonging to my dad, uncle, or one of my brothers. Because of that, my knowledge is theoretical, or "asymptotic" if that makes sense to you.
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how much would just a flange and a fuel rail cost?
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Oh good grief!
fifty bucks says the manifolds get bolted onto a junkyard L28ET
IMHO thats the only way to properly break in parts like this.. by BLOWING UP a junkyard motor.
holy fookin cow man, i am just.. speechless.
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Trust me I did look, and I actually do have an RB26 head just laying around...
You guys actually think I put thousands of hours of R and D into my head without reaseraching every possible angle...
You could not use a manifold system from a BMW or Merc, because they ARE 2 INCHES TWO SHORT, and spacing is WAY off. If you were to base it on a manifold design, RB would be the ONLY way.
Thanks for the comments about the manifolds, i was throwing the names around for potential sources, its good to have a good answer on that.
on the RB head issue, it would take as much, if not more modification to put an RB head on an L block as it would to make the 1.5KA24 head. I have an RB25DE engine in my possession (snapped timing belt, bent valves) and i still chose the KA route.also, the mercedes 280C is a no go. 2 inches shorter than an L series (bore spacing is too tight) and all the bimmer I6s have diff head bolt spacing and diff bore spacing.
I spent years in pick a part type junkyards researching I6 engines when I ran across various engines and the KA method was the most viable alternative when I brought this project to 1 fast Z many moons ago, and still remains the best way to tackle a 24v head for the L6.
Thanks for your input as well; it would be so nice for some cast fruition to come out of this, but unless someone who does casting work has time and effort to dump in, it looks like this thread IS just becoming an internet masturbation exercise.
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Just a small update: I got my downpipe in and bought an engine stand at Autozone so I could get the engine off the pallet and work with it more easily. Cost me just under $75, with a trip to Lowes to get bolts and washers to mount the engine. Now I'll be able to turn it upside down when I need to replace the oil pan. I'll be ordering a gasket kit shortly, and once I replace the major gaskets I can start putting everything together. The transmission should hopefully be ready in a week or two if everything's on time.
Also, I may be purchasing a Megasquirt kit which will further delay the time it'll take me to get the car finished, since I'll have to research and buy a new turbo and injectors, at the very least. I may choose to wait however since my budget is very limited to what I already listed, plus possibly new struts and springs, new Autometer gauges, and an aftermarket bucket seat. We'll see how that ends up.
To the best of my understanding, installing standalone fuel injection is not, in and of itself, cause to immediately go buy new, larger injectors and turbocharger to complement it. As far as I have gathered (internet bookworm, not speaking from experience disclaimer) there is a significant amount of room for growth for the L28ET to be found in the engine management alone. You will need to upgrade to a MAP sensor instead of your AFM, (for megasquirt) and the airflow meter is as much of an impedance on the air intake as the stock throttle body. (Granted, the stock intake manifold is probably as much of an impedance as well.. but it can still make plenty of power.)
Larger injectors are a relatively easy replacement anywhere down the line; they are right up there on top of everything else. The turbo can be played with until you get tired of it.
I would suggest simply installing what you have, and then playing with more fuel and bigger turbo as a preliminary incentive to blowing and rebuilding your engine. It sounds like you plan on rebuilding shortly anyhow, so I say that tongue-in-cheek
It looks like you've got the disease; I don't know whether to congratulate you or pity you
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dorky point of order:
TPS stands for two different things;
Throttle Position Switch (L-series type, two contact switch)
and
Throttle Position Sensor (potentiometer-style, resistance based sensor. think a volume knob)
Now, I realize that almost everyone knows the difference.. but it often makes life easier to say TP Switch, throttle switch, etc or throttle sensor just to avoid confusion.
On a side note, I am 99.99% positive that All l-series FI used switches, not sensors.
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should be a copper crush washer, not a rubber washer, if I am not mistaken
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I'll have to disagree with this, at least a little bit, and here's why:
There is a very much talked about and even proven swap for the Ford 2.3L. That is to get a Volvo DOHC head (the designation eludes me right now), that is nearly a bolt on to the 2.3, except for some welding of an aluminium block, some machine work, some added plumbing for the oiling, and some work to the timing system.
......
Another example of this is the GM 660 crowd....My point here is that it's even easier than the Ford 2.3/Volvo swap and there are even less guys doing it, and it could cost these guys under the $1K mark.
My final point to this is even a swap that could be considered easy by some or cheap that will make more power may not be done multiple times.
That being said, I don't know if an RB head is close enough to bolt to an L series, but if there is a head out there that is DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder that even with a fair amount of work would work on the L-series.......
...I'm sure that if an RB head was close enough, 1_fast_z would have used that isntead of mating parts of 3 KA heads.
....
I've been close a couple times now, but there's always one area that would take far too much to modify to work on the block.
I see what you are saying, and am aware of and fairly familiar with the Volvo swap at least; but my statement was intended to indicate that (at least as far as the varied attempts by many Z-car community members here and elsewhere) pretty much impossible to use an RB head without going completely external for cooling and oiling lines, which is absurd. I may be less than perfectly correct on the details, but the RB head just seems to be a no-go, and I think that in nearly 40 years of production, something would have been stumbled across before now. The first successful head alteration was 1 fast Z's, and my point was that duplicating his head with a single cast piece would likely be the easiest and best route to achieving our holy grail.
In other words, I don't think we really disagree that much.. I think its simply a matter of me having less faith in the possiblity of "finding something else out there" than you. I am all for that attitude; if you find it then GREAT, I just stopped believing in the possibility some time ago. Call me jaded
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I would consider duplicating my design if someone was serious. It is ALOT of unseen work (sorta to keep it low key) that goes into the project. I would almost have to build the entire engine for the potential customer, to ensure it is all together correctly, ie. timing components, oiling, etc.
Did you mean that you could theoretically be persuaded to re-create one of your three-piece units, or that you would be willing to co-operate with an effort to cast a single-piece head based on your (Nissan's) design? It seems to me that it would simplify the mold-making process if there was a supply of sectioned up original pieces to use for patterns.. from there, its simply a matter of duplicating a design... but from what you say the replication of the timing gear was not as straight-forward as "this goes here, that goes there."
It almost seems like there is enough support (if I have Brian on my side) to TRY looking into the feasibility on the cylinder head idea... and if the people who have spoken up on this thread who have the metalworking know how and were willing to contribute want to contact me as a "ringleader" then I'll captain the ship for now.. but I must profess that it seems out of my league. Beyond my sphere of experience at the very least.
Unfortunately, the realities of an all-new aluminum block simply do not outweigh the costs.. unless you have a few briefcases of cash to throw at it. If that is the case, then put your money where your mouth is.
Regarding the "Paeco-Goertz" unit... I tried a search, and the thread where the pics were originally posted, (starting in post #58) no longer has them. Tony, do you still have the photos of that piece, and if so, can you post them here?
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For those who don't know, the handle on the inside, to open the door, is that little chrome thingy underneath the "winglet" window... there is a small metal pull handle at the bottom for closing the door, but the latch is up high.
Also, when a customer ordered one of these with air conditioning, it was installed with lines running to the trunk, and there was a small air handler box that went back there, along with the condensor coil, that went where his speaker/stereo box are.
Am I crazy, or weren't those "third light" reflectors at the top of the fender a later addition? I LOVE the polished Libra mags, though, I bet those cost a pretty penny
Nice SR SRL311, too
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Tim: I was wondering if I was maybe seeing a dish that was "off-axis" to the same degree the combustion chamber is. To illustrate my point differently, I was asking if the "bowl" formed by the dish pointed straight up out of the bore, or if it was cocked towards the spark plug side and not of even depth. My question has been answered; sorry to have asked a question so "out of left field" and prone to misinterpretation.
As far as squish goes, it seems to me that matching your pieces, and preparing and controlling your motor well and with proper techniques, matter more than anything else. Quench or open chamber, the power is there.. IF you can build it.
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First off, I want to say that part of me hates stepping into bench0building discussions like this.. because I do freely admit that most of it is largely over my head.. but I know how far over my head it is, so I feel somewhat comfortable talking about it, and this is too tempting to resist
It would be much easier to put an RB26DETT head on an L6 than to build a whole new head. Just block off the oil passages and route oil from the outside of the head.I'd rather spend a grand on a modified RB26 head to work on an L6 than a whole new head. There are already turbo cams available, valvetrain componets, etc... Plus you can use a higher displacememt with an L6 than you can with an RB. (RB 3.0 vs. possible 3.4-3.5 with a max effort L6)
I could not possibly disagree more. if it only took a grand to put an RB head onto an L6 with external oiling and cooling, then it would have been done seventeen million times already..
To me, the two possibilities involving casting new pieces, and the L-6 engine series, would be to
A: Cast new aluminum blocks
B: Cast new crossflow, DOHC aluminum heads
Now, the difficulties of, and advantages in either possibility have been discussed at length. To me, the reality of setting up molds for a complete, internally cooled new engine block, is a manifest show-stopper. However, if KA series heads were already modified and sandwiched into a head, then why can we not find KA heads to section up in order to prepare a mold, sculpt an "ideal" combustion chamber (or even weld up and fill in a combustion chamber for complete customization after casting) and find a way to make the camshaft question work? Proven valvetrain components exist, the bores line up.. I hate to sit here and blatantly suggest we all copy what was just pioneered, but.. the realities of casting a head seem to me to be more surmountable than those of casting a complete block, and that aluminum block would still have to breathe through an L-series head, OR you would have to pioneer installing an RB head onto what is still an L block.
To me, when thoughts of CHANGING either the block, (to accommodate the RB head) OR the 240SX head design, (any changes needed? intake port alteration like I mentioned above?) are concerned.. then the entire ballgame is changed, and you are departing rapidly from reproducing and beginning to engineer your own animal. Therein lies even more potential for difficulty and time to snowball on this kind of project.
Whatever we may all agree or disagree on, my point remains.. without a captain, this ship is most likely going nowhere fast.
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Wow, so basically it's a loophole for a great deal eh?
Ring land sizes, is that the depth and thickens of them?
I wonder why they have things set up like that though.
Its called capitalism; Supply and Demand. They sell FAR fewer "custom pistons" than they do 240SX pistons, and a customer coming to buy parts for such-and-such a car is usually a paying customer of someone Else, so they can get away with charging rather more for a piston for a Generico Blahmobile than they really could get away with charging for whatever specific piston set you wanted. The manufacture of the pistons is all the same, custom orders just take a slight effort to make the machines do "something else." It can be scary how simple it all is sometimes.
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the TPS either sends its signal or it doesnt; there is no "just enough" to do anything. if it contacts the right points at the right time, then the switch itself is (like you said) probably not the problem.. but the problem is still very reminiscent of a TPS issue, which would indicate a need to check the wiring associated with that circuit. if you have to, make one long lead for your multimeter, and check the continuity between sensor end and ECU end with an audible alarm, and proceed to flew every inch of that wire until you hear a break in continuity. This checks for intermittent connection where it should be. If THAT fails, then try a similar check, except mix up the terminals that you are checking (hit terminal A on sensor side, terminal B on ECU side and again, flex the wire, only this time, listen for a beep of continuity, indicating an intermittent short across that circuit.
Since you cleared up a major portion of the problem, it means that whatever is left is going to be intermittent, and difficult to track down. I call it "magic wire" syndrome; you basically have a gremlin somewhere chewing on something and need to find that beast and exorcise him.
In the end, the best way to proceed is in the precise order laid out in the EFI bible.. but dont forget that most of those tests are supposed to be run both AT the sensor, and at the ECU plug for the sensor, to confirm the integrity of the wiring harness.
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Tim, in that thread you linked to you mentioned that these pistons
were "a pretty good match" to this head's combustion chamber:
The context of the conversation was quench, and you said that despite the lack of squish (relatively stock CC's) they were a good match. At the time when I first read it, I hadn't noticed... but is the dish in those pistons regular and even in depth, or is it biased to one side to form a more evenly disc- or pancake-shaped combustion chamber? It is difficult to tell from the pictures, but I suspect not, and if so.. then... well, I wonder
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man, I wish I had read this thread two weeks ago.
the throttle position switch only has three states.. "idle," "cruise," and "WOT." When the computer isn't getting a signal from the TPS, it presumes "cruise" mode. "Idle" is less fuel, and "WOT" is more fuel. It is MUCH simpler than the potentiometer-style throttle position sensors used one more modern systems. I had the exact same, high-throttle cut-out anytime my engine bay got wet, because the boot on the TPS plug was bad and it shorted the entire affair out. It took me several recurrences of this problem before I definitely isolated the issue; since then, any time it recurred it was only a two-minute fix.
The cover for the switch should be removable with some work; its a very elementary device and it may be that any defect would be apparent and repairable. Or you could just source a new or JY unit. Have you tested the function of your TPS as described in the EFI bible?
If the switch is verified good, then the remaining issue is almost certainly in the wiring associated with the TPS. To check this, you could start the car and let it idle, and "massage" the length of the sub-harness, listening for hiccups or increases in RPM. Theoretically, you could even use a jumper wire to simulate "wot" and do the same thing, (AGAIN, listening for changes while "massaging") but I do not know how well the vehicle would handle a "wot" TPS signal when the throttle wasnt actually open past idle...
Good luck. The hardest part is recognizing how truly simple this system is, and not reading more complexity into it than there is.
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If it came down to a DOHC head or an aluminum block, I would pick the DOHC.
I agree.
IIRC, didn't someone take a couple of KA24 head, chop them up, and then bolt them all together?
Yes, 1_fast_Z did it. look up "l31dett" and you should find it.
If we could get something like that as a single unit, that would be awesome. Especially if the intake side could take all the normal L series stuff (Webers, Mikunis, etc).
I would think it probably wiser to base the intake ports off of another pattern already commercially available.. say, maybe a BMW or Toyota or an RB pattern.. so that we would already have a commercially available base of intake parts to work with. The non crossflow stock head means that the intake runners are not evenly spaced, which is less than ideal. If we could find an engine like, say a mercedes benz, that would have both fuel injection and weber/solex intake manifolds for it, then so much the better.
Its all bench racing, though, unless one or two people pick up a lead role and run with it. I for one, love talking about this sort of thing, but can't do much to make anything happen. Anyone want to volunteer for quarterback?
Show your Z car sketches/drawings/ideas/off-the-wall stuff
in Body Kits & Paint
Posted
I like it with the blue and red idea...
The BRE paint scheme has always been the "right" retro race scheme to go for, because THEY used so many permutations on the theme that WE get to use our own unique takes on it... and while they all look practically the exact same, there are radical differences between them all too.
Me, I want a nice off white paint on my 75, with a BIG red rising sun on the roof, with the blue bar through it, no datsun lettering. Identify myself to friendly aircraft