[1974 260Z track car. Ground Up.]

You caught me out, I was thinking purely fiberglass.. I honestly find no appeal in carbon fiber finish 99% of the time.. carbon's appeal to me is structural and not aesthetic.. the appearance of the material is really nice and all.. but it doesn't suit my tastes, so I hadn't even thought about what an exact mold would look like for a carbon finish.. AND I had figured you were almost certainly going to be sanding any part made, at least some.. so any texture left in the mold would fail to make it through.. Bah, if I REALLY wanted good texture for a piece like that, it should be fiberglass core covered in a vinyl or leather material, really.. that is what I've always figured Nissan was imitating with their plastic and their molds

 

Anyhow, like I said, that door looks great and I can't wait to see your dash! Stock Reproduction FTW!

[1974 260Z track car. Ground Up.]

LOL @ Hot-N-Ready

 

Is that dashboard going to have a smooth surface, like a fiberglass body panel, or will it be textured like stock?? I saw the pic you posted, and couldn't help but think "Aww, that would be nice... but I would MISS the crinkles!" Is there a commercial product or method to get a finished texture similar to the stock dash other than the rattlecan crinkle finish?

 

Just curious. The door is looking great; have you thought about laying a laser on the lines to see how perfect they are?? It doesn't look like you have much room for improvement, but it's a thought.

[The Saga of my First Stroker -- and some restoration...]

Were you aware that the location of racing stripes was functional? The outside of the driver's side stripe, and the inside of the passenger's side stripe, are supposed to be placed so that when the driver looks at the point where the lines disappear from his view, he is seeing the point on his visual perimeter of the vehicle that corresponds to where the outside edge of his tire is compared to the edge of the road. The line of the stripe describes the line of the car onto the track ahead.

 

I mention that because if you do the first pictured idea, you might want to opt to change that border from the hood edge to the "racing stripe" location, just for functionality and conversation-ability.. "Oh, yah I did that for a good reason.. Come here and watch..."

[Poll: How should I go about a "Resurrection Log?"]

Start a new thread in the "Ignition and Electrical" sub forum.

 

excellent idea, for many reasons that are becoming clearer as time passes... extra weight added to "open thread" option.

 

Anything I do will be authored in one fell swoop after all the work is finished; this isn't going to be a running log so much as a step-by-step.. so I MAY just do a closed build thread as a backbone, post separately with any issues I have (not expecting much I can't handle) and then once the car is started go back through my pictures, plagiarize the EFI bible (with credit given) for graphics to add to the pictures (and either text, or graphics of the tests..) and basically, submit it as one large (probably two or three sequential) posts to be critiqued and edited as necessary.

 

I'm picturing more or less a book; a picture book version of the Bible as an end result, which is one reason I had thought to go so far as creating a webpage from scratch. In fact, I may even do it all as images specifically for ease of printing? I don't know, we shall see.

 

This is a long and ponderous process I am about to embark on, so I don't expect any fruition of this particular sub-project for a few months at least. After all; I will have a car to be working on!! Despite that, I appreciate all the feedback.

[Factory Manuals - Some.]

you are just so freakin awesome its not funny, and I'm serious.

 

This thread needs to be stickied, even though there isn't a whole lot that comes through this forum... and eventually the title should be changed to "....Most" if not All.

[The Saga of my First Stroker -- and some restoration...]

After installing new rod bolts use a Sunnen rod gage to test the roundness of the big end and hone them round again as indicated by the gage prior to installing the new bearings. That should allways be done when putting in new rod bolts after installation and checking bolt stretch.

 

Dragonfly

Process clarification...

 

You take the rod, and the cap, and the new rod bolts, install the bolts, torque them to spec, check and hone the bore of the big end, remove the rod bolts, and install with the bearing on the crankshaft? Or is this usually done with the rod on the crankshaft, simply sans bearing?

 

 

Bonus Question (20 points): Was this a dumb question??

[Best engine for a hypermiler Z]

Semi OT here... but I didn't see any ZX data in the Aero section. Am I just overlooking it, or am I SOL with my s130 and aero data?

I stand corrected regarding all the RX7 stuff. As far as S130 aero yah, the only vehicles involved in the test day were S30s. There was only so much of a research project that could be tackled via volunteer committee, doing TWO chassis was too much. However, if you take some time to look at the differences that differently shaped pieces made on the S30, alot can be intuited at your own risk..

[Best engine for a hypermiler Z]

The RX7 presents interesting situations because of the relative height of the stock engine versus anything else. Also, I may well be mistaken, but I always thought the 2nd gen were kinda heavy..??

 

 

He DOES have an interesting point, and I have lost track at this point... but how married to the S30 concept are you? If you DO want to stick with an S30, then you need to start boning up on how to set the thing up aerodynamically, and there is no time like the present. the Aero sub-forum is a result of a group day done at a wind tunnel facility last summer, and MUCH data was gathered regarding different pieces and body kits used, and not all of it was at all intuitive.

 

 

On the other hand...

 

If *I* were to build my dream econo-sportster it would be either a CRX (sorry I like em anyhow) or really.. the REAL dream ecobox would be a Subaru XT.

 

 

Specifically, a FWD, NA, 4 cyl, 1.8 liter 2+2, 2 door sports car, shaped like a wedge, with a drag coefficient of 0.29. Reports of this engine in a five speed, FWD sedan or wagon getting mileage of up to 40 mpg are considered reliable, reports of up to 50 are heard but usually the skeptics are skeptical of anything over 40. I haven't heard anyone say "*I* have a FWD 5 speed NA XT!! It gets such and such MPG city/highway!" yet. Everyone hears "Subaru" and thinks of AWD or 4WD but back in the 80's and before, the best selling point in many peoples opinions was economy. The NA 1.8s were usually all TBI; but the XTs actually came with a SPFI "spider" manifold and I *think* different cylinder heads but not substantially so. ALL of the vehicles that I refer to with above economy reports were TBI, or weber carburetors. It is an economy motor, 89hp/108tq IIRC. There WERE turbo 4's and an NA 6 cylinder, based on the same engine. You could get AWD in the car, some of them came stock with a problematic (but easy to swap out and not entirely difficult to repair, just $$) computer controlled air suspension....

 

Sorry, I have to make the full case for this car, since I have already started. Thus far I've talked about "economy Z motor," which is one subject that simply comes up ALOT in my family.. but this is MY "dream MPG sportscar," so now that I've started I'm just going to finish and let it sit

 

So.. I don't know how easy it would be to put onto the XT, but the sedans and such were made with manual steering, so a manual rack for the car exists. 0.29 drag coefficient. An MPFI intake system exists, albeit with 1984 technology. Computer controlled Air suspension exists on some models, but is probably more trouble than it could be worth to fool with. Car weighs about 2500 pounds or so, weight CAN be shed. Engine in less aerodynamic vehicles, at about the same weight, with stock factory TBI and electronic ignition (nice, simple, easy to maintain hitachi stuff) achieves ~40 mpg or BETTER. Non-interference, 9.5:1 compression, run on low test stock, big bore, short stroke, torque-heavy, MPFI, megasquirted, SOHC 1.8 liter boxer four. In a vehcile that weighs 2200-2500 pounds, with a drag of 0.29. You could even swap out, say, a newer EJ18, and retain the stock transmission with use of a readily available adapter plate... I could go on............

 

wiki on the XT

 

allright, I am done.

[NA 3.1L=>head & camshaft questions. No shortcuts, max]

no FAIR!! you get to be married to a racecar AND you get to fly! *jealous*

[Poll: How should I go about a "Resurrection Log?"]

Okay, I have decided to borrow one of the good multimeters and get to working on my car. 1975 280Z 2 seater. Click "Fusible links blow" in my sig for a LONG story of when, and how, it got sidelined from DD use in October of 2004, and some pictures.

 

Long story short, fusible link block burnt. Step one in resurrecting her is finding that short, and replacing the minimal fire damage (maxi fuse conversion and internally regulated Maxima alt conversion at the same time.)

 

Step two will be a thorough testing of all FI components, under the hood and at the ECU plug; step three will be refreshing the coolant, oil, and fuel systems, step four will be rear brakes and then step five is installation of the new exhaust. Then, on to rust repair and suspension work.

 

Steps one and two are the crucial ones as far as this post is concerned.. I want to do a nice, thorough progress report style log of my work, and I want to include all the literature from the EFI Bible regarding relevant testing procedures. I want to check EVERY thing, because I never REALLY ran all my diagnostics right before.

 

So, in essence, I want to write a brief "how-to" guide that could be used to walk up to the proverbial Z-car in a field, walk through the steps I go through, and start the car up once all tests are satisfied. I am talking about something that in some ways would be superfluous to having a copy of the EFI bible itself.. a "user friendly" demonstration of how to use the book, that included the relevant pages FROM the book and photos of exactly what I do.

 

 

So, yadda yadda, got wrench and meter work to do, allright.. in my head I realized that I wanted to do this write-up, but I am unsure what medium to use. Basically my options are thus:

 

1. "Open" thread here in the S30 sub-forum

2. "Closed" thread in the Member's Projects sub-forum

3. Personal blog/website through one of the many freely available providers of such services (cardomain et al)

4. PERSONAL Personal blog/website (would need someone to volunteer to host this)

 

Option 4 seems to me to be the nicest and most presentable way to go about it, but I have no hosting capabilities and have never scratchbuilt a website before, although I AM 110% indoctrinated into the world of personal computing (the Army trained my old man on a UNIVAC at Ft Monmouth in the 60's and he has been IT ever since, I've been PCing since I was eight (1988)) and know its as simple as using a word processor if I wind up going that route.

 

Failing the ability to set up my own PERSONAL website, I am leaning more towards "Open thread" here (in hopes of getting a sticky) but if I do so I would want minimal irrelevant feedback.. RELEVANT feedback and assistance is great, I don't wanna be a Nazi about it.. but I would want it to be troll-free.

 

 

 

 

What do my fellow users and moderators think would be the most useful, easy-to-find, and generally speaking BEST way for me to go about doing this? I want to finish with a useful product to help other people either resurrect a vehicle from long idle-time, or even just track down problems in a tricky car. Basically, I want to have a demonstration of how easy diagnosing and repairing this EFI system really is, when armed with a multimeter and the EFI bible.

 

 

 

Discuss.

[NA 3.1L=>head & camshaft questions. No shortcuts, max]

wow what a GREAT build thread!! I thought I had read through this one cover to cover, but I just started from the beginning and I think I stepped out before this one finished.

 

Its been four years... many many others have made the jump to ITB with aftermarket standalone EMS. Have you given any thought to using a setup like that? Webers are only SO great without the jetting kit needed to tweak them. Otherwise trying to pull max power (200+ gross horsepower goal out of a U-20 roadster engine, 2.0 liter 4 cyl) is difficult. Don't get me wrong, I HIGHLY respect the decision to stick with the carbs, but with this cam you are stepping into true big-league territory.

 

 

Besides, since this car is your wife, its easy for me to play pipe-dream games with your money!!

 

I don't know how complete my uncle's collection O' jets is in this size range, he has them for his roadsters and I can't even recall right now if they are mostly 40 or 44s.. but you mentioned long-term plans of traveling to Florida earlier. (you know, four years ago? EARLIER.) If you are ever coming down towards West Palm/Fort Lauderdale/Miami area, drop me a line and I will see if we can't set up a "butt-dyno" tuning session.

 

All that was mostly gas, I just wanted to subscribe to the thread and give you my compliments.

[Need Help deciding!!!!]

The air dam on the car with the grill is different from the rest.

 

The general shape you are going for is more or less the standard-ish shape for the aftermarket air dams on these cars, and is also my preferred look; but aerodynamic testing seems to lean strongly towards the MSA type 3 unit being the better performer.. I am GROSSLY over summarizing a vast amount of data in making that blanket statement, because any air dam requires a bit more than simple bolt-on installation to serve much function.

 

Okay, that being said, you can go to http://www.zcarparts.com and find air dams that look like that, quality pieces bought my many. I would recommend urethane over fiberglass for durability's sake... I watched my uncle hit a cone with his fiberglass airdam on an autocross course in the most beautiful Z I've grown up with, and saw it shatter the airdam into a million tiny pieces, and he has had his black urethane piece on there since then.

 

Urethane flexes, which leads to its own issues in installation. Sometimes you need to add a few extra little braces to hold/set the piece into its proper shape, but for a street car its normally recommended.

 

The grill appears to ME to be a custom made piece mimicking the stocker... It may well even BE a stock grill that is simply immaculately finished. Take a look at your grill and see if you can't find a way to make something along the same lines as that; its NOT as difficult as you might think, with the right fabricating equipment. A Miter box type cut, repeated say, 10 times in 4 upright pieces, find the right piece of channel for the cross-piece, quick tack welds, and finish. Bend the channels first obviously, thats the hardest part.

[Custom Intake- How much can the stock ECU handle?]

Tony D.....

 

 

The only thing I have to say to that is, now I know what to do with that old washing machine motor I kept around for "some reason."

 

 

 

Thank you.

[1975 280Z parts car find]

Well, don't get me wrong.. I know sometimes it has to be. Ess muss sein! I helped my dad cut the 240Z that taught me how to actually WORK on these things into tiny bits for no REALLY good reason.. it needed salvaging, but it WAS salvagable. We didn't WANT to do it; but we had to. Hearing that the interior was already gutted made it easier

 

It still hurts like unadopted puppies though.

[240z rear windows into 260z-metal graft?]

Try flipping the 2 seater windows, I think it will match the roofline better.

[Clutch won't disengage]

Blown clutch disc? Thats how mine went. Fortunately I was 1/4 mile from my house, I had some kid on a four wheeler push my rear bumper while I started the car in first, and just awkwardly worked my way home like the guy who couldnt get the rambler outta second gear.

 

Picture the disc shattering, and a piece of material getting wedged in between the pressure plate and the remains of the clutch plate. Blammo, permanently engaged clutch.

[My Z is Sick, i need help quick!!!]

he didn't pull the spark plugs, he pulled the injector plugs.

 

at one point you mentioned pulling plug wires to no effect;

 

i had the car running and unplugged 4 of the 6 plugs after i cleaned them and the car ran the same as with all them on. but when i pulled the cylinder closest to the fire wall the car stalled out. and i know i am gettting spark through the wires cuz they shocked me soo bid i bled.

 

Replace those wires. Try running the car and the dark and see how many places your spark may be arcing out to... bad wires leaks just like bad hoses.

 

i pulled the connectors off the fuel injectors one by on and the only cylinders that seemed to be effected by this was numbers 1 and 4

 

but cylinder 6 seemed to be firing according to the "pull the plug wires" diagnostic?

 

Something isn't right here, and wandering around in your engine bay, haphazardly looking at various subsystems for your problem is not going to pinpoint it.

 

 

 

New start. Get fresh plug wires, clean all six plugs, re gap them, and check for spark at each plug (yes, I mean pull the plugs, one at a time, and with the plug wire connected to the plug and the plug grounded on the valve cover, crank the engine and look for BLUE spark at each plug.)

 

If you do not get good, blue spark, then get new plugs. NGK BPR 6ES

 

Blue spark at all six plugs? Good. Again, even compression numbers around 140 WILL run perfectly fine.

 

Now run through the tests in the EFI bible.

http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/efisystem/280zfuelinjectionbook.pdf

Make sure that you run the component checks at the ECU end, AND at the component end. Testing say, the Throttle position switch.. it may go from idle, to run, to WOT and work perfectly fine when testing at the sensor, but if there is a break in the harness to the ECU then it will still behave badly. Testing at the component checks the component, testing at the ECU plug tests the vehicle's wiring as well.

 

 

 

Let us know which test solved your problem.

[A/C and heater switch wiring]

I don't have a CLUE if it will help, but I have a collection of at least two different wiring diagram sets for the 75 280Z that I could email you. There are several jpegs and gifs, as well as a couple PDF files. I know one diagram is an FSM style, and the other is a very clear and easy to read re-drawing that I believe may have come from a chilton's manual. I have NO clue how identical the diagrams are, but if I were to find a discrepancy I would lean towards trusting the "FSM one."

 

PM me your email address and I can email them to you; they probably won't be any help, but it cannot hurt.

 

 

My Subaru forum has some great info on rebuilding blower motor resistor packs. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=75738&highlight=resistor+pack

[Max tire size on a stock non turbo rim]

how much extra are you spending on drag radials? LSD is a cost effective way of getting more grip from the rears, permanently, and it works with any power level, and any wheel/tire size... if youre running stocker now an R180 would keep you in contact with the asphalt, even though it is a downgrade in size... just trying to think cheap.

 

 

Limited Slip is NOT just for the big boys! If a pair of drag radials for the rears last a year, and cost $200, then an $800 LSD is only four years worth of tires for superior performance with ANY tire.

 

 

 

 

Just a Thought!

[should I buy rusty 280ZXT?]

You called the car rotten.

 

 

Thats a common fate for a Datsun, and it means that the car...

 

I said, The Car

 

is shot to hell. You can re work the engine all you want, but you will be building a tube frame vehicle to make this a safe car. It is a unibody chassis, there are no big I beams running underneath that form a "frame" beyond the body itself.

 

To say that there is no saving a car in this condition is incorrect; not to mention the fact that I have not seen this vehicle.. but its not a Camaro. Its not a Mustang that you can drag out of a yard, throw some duct tape over the rust holes, and build a hotrod out of.

 

The car will bend in half the first time you lift one end with a jack!

 

 

 

Yes, you COULD dump tons of cash into welding new steel in for subframe members and floor pans and tranny tunnel and god knows what else.. but thats dumping insane amounts of cash into a rust bucket.

 

 

I LOVE these cars. Twenty minutes ago I made a post that a little part of me dies with every car that gets scrapped. That being said, this car sounds like SCRAP!

 

 

 

Grab the motor, maybe snag the wiring harness etc, definitely get all the engine accessories, grab what you would need to take any other Z and do the turbo swap! Wait for a chassis to show up without an engine, or with.. whatever. Finding a rusted out turbo means you get the gold from under the hood to throw into a solid chassis.

 

 

Finding a rusted out turbo, and stuffing some engine under the hood..... means you want to feel a vehicle fall apart around you at speed.

[My Z is Sick, i need help quick!!!]

at one point you mentioned pulling plug wires to no effect; I think you said cyl 1 and 4 were firing but the others, by that test, were not.

 

Is this still the case? If so, after attempting to run, or running, what do the spark plugs from the NON firing cylinders look like when you pull them right after shutdown? Are they covered in fuel?

 

I do not think that the engine would run at all with all six injectors stuck wide open; that makes no sense, it would be completely flooded out.

 

Your "dropped" compression numbers could mean literally nothing; if atmospheric pressure was higher the day of the first test than it was the day of the lower test, you would EXPECT to see lower numbers across the board. On the other hand, it COULD indicate that you are washing your cylinder walls with fuel.

 

Have you found the EFI bible yet? It has great troubleshooting flow charts that direct you to the tests you need to run, in the order you shuold run them, for a number of give problems. I would first suggest reading that book thoroughly (first section, just read through twice. Then, skim through the testing procedure section, then read through the first section again, and read the tests with your car and its problems in mind.)

 

If you want to "think outside the box" regarding the book, or if you have read and tested and are STILL stumped, you might try disconnecting the fuel pump power supply, and removing each injector one at a time, holding it in your hand while the engine gets turned over to see if it is physically functioning. All six injectors test out, and you get good signal, then its time to check fuel pressure... but ALL of that is contained within the book.

 

 

 

This book is not TITLED "The EFI Bible," that is just the label that the Z-car community have given to it because it is THAT comprehensive, and THAT vital to knowing this FI system. It is a simple, simple, SIMPLE computerized system designed and built in the EARLY 70's and quite frankly, all you need to do is RTFM and everything becomes clear. If the components pass all the prescribed tests, the bottom end is intact (140 across the board should run like a champ) and you give it good fuel and spark, then the car WILL start and run.

[1975 280Z parts car find]

i saw bumper rubber.. if you can find someon that WANTS it thats some change right there.

 

 

terribly saddening about the loss, though.. flame me all you want, there's a part of me that dies with every 70's Z that gets rusted, crushed, crashed, or slashed into oblivion.

[what does "san maru" mean?]

actually, tony, that was great! I knew just enough about it going in to grab what you were getting at.

 

Would it be too obscure to say that it is world linguistic difficulties and stresses such as these that lead to..

 

..more bars, in more places?

[Turbo Intake Plenum]

Nope...

I'm not that smart. LOL

I was trying to make the point of making a counter rotating vortex to basically reduce the other vortexes to near zero.

 

...

 

 

Now that I have seen Jeff's finalized design I was very impressed and wished that I had thought of that.

 

OTM

 

So... in other words, your statement made me visualize the concept that was finally used. Crap, I wish I had drawn up a rough sketch to say "like this?" at the time! Bah, hindsight.

[That old melted fuse box question - with a small twist . . .]

Over time, countless solder connections in the entire vehicle's wiring wind up being the primary points of random, background resistance that builds up with age. However, the copper itself is also potentially liable to corrosion.

 

In short, (no pun intended) you could either...

 

..perform a series of meticulous and tedious continuity checks, and drive yourself crazy reading wiring diagrams just to make sure you know what should go where...

 

..just work with what you have, dovetail the new fuse box in, and do an empirical evaluation of the state of the wiring harness (how bright and even are the headlights? interior lights bright enough?)

 

..or you could go ahead and swap in the "Painless" wiring harness.

 

In any case, a thorough visual inspection of the exposed bits of the harness will begin to tell a tale, if it has reached a critical state.

 

So, take a look at it, and good luck with your decision. Time will tell; but be ware: putting off electrical issues for TOO long CAN result in FIRE! (click "fusible links blow" in my sig for a long, LONG story explaining one way how.)