Cabanaboy Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hey guys, first post on this forum. I was directed here by quite a few searches on Google so figured I would just join. So, as the title stated, I am looking for a project 240Z/280Z. I've had a thing for their styling and I know about the multitude of engines that get transplanted into the engine bay so it just seems like a real fun and relatively cheap project car. The plan is to make a fun weekend car. Something to flog mercilessly around the local solo Auto-X for experience and the fun of it all. I had a 240SX back in high school and loved the car to death and would love another, but they seem to be overpriced due to the cult-like Drift following and ease of SR20DET swaps. I got the 240SX for $200 and I regret ever getting rid of it, I just didn't have the money at the time to have a fun second car. So the goal for the car is to be a stripped down 'race car'. I have found a local '78 280Z that supposedly runs and is in OK condition for a good price. I'm awaiting the seller response but if it is still available it looks hopeful. It comes with a working engine, transmission (but the clutch master/slave cylinder is bad; has parts for both), good interior. Frame may need straightening as it was in a head-on and restored,but the car drives straight. The hood doesn't latch. Title is clean and in the person's name. So assuming the car is still available and I go down to look at it, what should I look for on the car? I hear alot of talk of rusting on these cars, so where should I look for rust, specifically hazardous rust areas like main frame or strut towers? Any other general advice for Z specific purchases would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully I'll be joining the Z community shortly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 RUST It's ALWAYS worse than it looks, there's just no getting around it with these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 RUST It's ALWAYS worse than it looks, there's just no getting around it with these things. I figured, especially in the NE where salt is laid down excessively during winter. I'm wondering where I need to be looking. I don't mind a little body rust here and there where some grind and filler will be fine, but I'd like to know weaknesses so the frame doesn't fall apart first time I try to drive it. If I have to weld plating onto the frame for re-inforcement, any idea how thick? It'll be my first time but I have access to welders and material, it's just a matter of doing it the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 TC rod boxes, rockers, behind the wheels, strut towers near the bottom where it's 2 layers, hatch lid, 'frame rails', battery tray area, and obviously the floors. The rockers in these cars are the main support, not the wimpy rails under the floor. Avoid any aftermarket sunroofs, most are done badly. Do a search for bad dog frame rails, they are a heavy duty aftermarket replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNeckZ Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Look at the floor boards and frame rails the most. Depending on your skill at body work, most every thing else is fixable. Or see if you can take some classes on the subject and see if they will let you work on it in the class. Also check for any crash problem that maybe hidden from view (frame rails and frontend crushed areas). You need a straight frame to start with. From there, all it will take is time and money to get it to what you want. Some people have spent a lot of time and money on their rides. Rust is aways there. They never came with rustproofing on it. How you want it to be (stock or modified) is what you have to ask yourself. They are a fun car to work on and modifiy. So good luck and keep us informed on how it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Look at the floor boards and frame rails the most. Depending on your skill at body work, most every thing else is fixable. Or see if you can take some classes on the subject and see if they will let you work on it in the class. Also check for any crash problem that maybe hidden from view (frame rails and frontend crushed areas). You need a straight frame to start with. From there, all it will take is time and money to get it to what you want. Some people have spent a lot of time and money on their rides. Rust is aways there. They never came with rustproofing on it. How you want it to be (stock or modified) is what you have to ask yourself. They are a fun car to work on and modifiy. So good luck and keep us informed on how it goes Well I'm still waiting on the owner to get back to me. He did not leave a phone number in the Ad so I emailed him but nothing yet So if there is bad rust on the floor board or the frame rails, is it something that one would be able to grind up and weld in some support? I guess I should google images of the frame rails to get a true understanding. I know the floorboards in older cars are usually cut out and a new piece of metal welded in place. Really, unless it is something that will take monumental amount of work to fix, I don't mind. It'd be good experience and since it's just a project car I won't mind the downtime. I can get metal at cost, and I have the tools and a friend who can weld just about anything. The frame would be the only catch. He said it drives stright BUT the hood won't latch. He did take a picture of the damage to the front left and it doesn't seem too bad. He specifically states the hood doesn;t line up properly with the latch. Is there a way to tell if it is the frame or if it is just structural up at the hood level? I'll try to get a picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 So this is what GIS returned for me picture wise: I assume the 3rd pic is with dog rails or new frame rails? May be pic overload, but it looks like these are the most common? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Cosmetic rust wouldn't deter me(and hasn't), but anything structural would. IMO, there are enough of these still around to find one that doesn't need the frame rebuilt. Just remember that time is money, and by buying a fairly clean chassis you will end up both time and money ahead. A lot of projects get abandoned because people lose interest while doing rust repair and body work. Edited November 15, 2011 by letitsnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubu Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think its more of what is left thats not rusted? What you can see is just the surface rust, rusts are like cancer you wont know its there until that first symtom and its already too late. When I bought my car I checked thorroughly for rust and still when I stripped her down I found more rust. I wouldnt worry too much with cosmetic rust since its going to be a stripped down race car, just check for structural rust as suggested by other members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Well one good thing I see on the car ad I am pursuing is that supposedly the car has no rust, I missed that one the first 2 read throughs but when specifically looking for it I found it. Don't know how true that is but if it is true then the car is definitely worth the asking price...I just wish he/she would reply! While this is far down the line (if at all) what is the lightest weight engine swap that would get me around 200-250 HP and nice mid-curve torque? I was thinking the GM 3800 series L67 with the Eaton Supercharger, but I don't know if that would even work since it is designed for a Front wheel drive car. Plus maybe I don't want to deal with all the electronics and emissions crap. Edited November 15, 2011 by Cabanaboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Are those before and after pictures? They don't match. One shows what looks like the stock R200 and another shows what looks like a short-nose diff with CVs. Maybe the MM short-nose diff conversion package. That rust looks pretty severe, along with the gouged frame rail (first picture), and the front end damage. It might be worth parts. Compare the cost of the MM parts, and confirm what it has, and if you want the parts. There's probably more rust damage that's not so easily visible. These cars don't have "frames" to straighten, with rails that you can work on, they are unibody or monocoque. Basically a big metal box, with stiffening rails welded on in important areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think those were just pictures of places these cars generally rust that he found on google. The turbo L can easily make 250-300+, but finding a good one can be a pain. I'd consider a KA-T, sr20, or LS1 if I built another s30, I'd probably consider one of the toyota 6's as well. I think the inlet on the blower of the L67 would interfere with the hood latch and firewall pretty badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yea, like leitsnow said, I just used Google Image Search (GIS I call it) and found the common rust places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Oops, didn't know that Google had its own acronym for its image search function... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Oops, didn't know that Google had its own acronym for its image search function... I made it myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Ok, another question while in anticipation of owning my own S30: What's the best way to prevent future rust on parts. Say I find a spot that isn't weak but is starting to rust. I'd clean it up, but is there a suggested paint or product to cover the spot to prevent future rusting? For the underside I'd try to find something durable, like the coating used on the underside of my Subaru. Would basic Rustoleum be fine for rusty spots that see less action like a floorboard (interior side)? Edited November 16, 2011 by Cabanaboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letitsnow Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 POR-15 is very good, or so I've heard(I've never used it, I did use their gas tank sealer with mediocre results). I use rustoleum on parts that don't get seen, it's been pretty good to me. I painted the front frame of a 2nd gen camaro with rustoleum that I was planning on using for a project, I never did, it's sat outside for the last 8 years and still looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Well if those are the picts of the car, I'd say consider the parts and the sales price. If it's more than say $500 bucks, I'd say keep looking. especially for a 280Z, there's still a ton of them around. especially if you want to look in the Southwest. If you spend $1000 on a relatively decent body and $500 to ship it anywhere in the east, you'll be in really good shape, compared to the time and $ you'd spend trying to get a rusted out body to a workable shape. Don't get attached to any particular body. There's still enough of them around that you can afford to shop around. Read up about where the rust often occures. As for a light engine to get swapped in. The SR20 or the 2JZ are really some of the lightest most powerful engines that you could swap in, personally I'm in the middle of a VQ35HR swap. As far as the car itself, really before you buy a car, you should really think about what it is that you really want to use the car for. If it's for weekend rallysports then great, plan on aiming for that, Setup a whiteboard or a notebook on what you want and where you want to be when you're done. Sticking to some simbilance of that plan will really help you stay on target and keep your costs down from buying too much "while I'm at it" parts. I can't say this enough, Research research research. Understanding what's common to upgrade and where quality parts are availible really will save you time and money. You're not building a SEMA show car, or maybe you are, either way, you need to know what you want the end product to look like and perform like so you can have a plan to get yourself there. Aimlessly buying parts just clutters up your space. Tackle each portion of your build as an individual researched project so you don't get overwhelmed and can keep motivated. I'd also recommend joining any local Z club in your area, it's always handy to have wrenching help, not to mention there's a lot of people there, like us, who've mucked around with these cars for 20 years and know a lot of the tricks and secrets about fixing them up. Things that you won't necessarilly find in any manual, like burning out old bushings. or that you can replace a bad wiper motor w/ a mid 90's honda accord motor, or cleaning old parts with a battery charger and baking soda.. Of course asking on here is great, we're happy to give you all the advice we can, but we don't like repeating ourselves, so please search, search, and more search on any topic you can think of, we've probably written about it. Aside from that we love pictures, so when you find a car, show us what you've been doing and I promise we'll be interrested. Phar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubu Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well if those are the picts of the car... ....but we don't like repeating ourselves... We dont either, They are from Google Image Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabanaboy Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) Well if those are the picts of the car, I'd say consider the parts and the sales price. If it's more than say $500 bucks, I'd say keep looking. especially for a 280Z, there's still a ton of them around. especially if you want to look in the Southwest. If you spend $1000 on a relatively decent body and $500 to ship it anywhere in the east, you'll be in really good shape, compared to the time and $ you'd spend trying to get a rusted out body to a workable shape. Don't get attached to any particular body. There's still enough of them around that you can afford to shop around. Read up about where the rust often occures. As for a light engine to get swapped in. The SR20 or the 2JZ are really some of the lightest most powerful engines that you could swap in, personally I'm in the middle of a VQ35HR swap. As far as the car itself, really before you buy a car, you should really think about what it is that you really want to use the car for. If it's for weekend rallysports then great, plan on aiming for that, Setup a whiteboard or a notebook on what you want and where you want to be when you're done. Sticking to some simbilance of that plan will really help you stay on target and keep your costs down from buying too much "while I'm at it" parts. I can't say this enough, Research research research. Understanding what's common to upgrade and where quality parts are availible really will save you time and money. You're not building a SEMA show car, or maybe you are, either way, you need to know what you want the end product to look like and perform like so you can have a plan to get yourself there. Aimlessly buying parts just clutters up your space. Tackle each portion of your build as an individual researched project so you don't get overwhelmed and can keep motivated. I'd also recommend joining any local Z club in your area, it's always handy to have wrenching help, not to mention there's a lot of people there, like us, who've mucked around with these cars for 20 years and know a lot of the tricks and secrets about fixing them up. Things that you won't necessarilly find in any manual, like burning out old bushings. or that you can replace a bad wiper motor w/ a mid 90's honda accord motor, or cleaning old parts with a battery charger and baking soda.. Of course asking on here is great, we're happy to give you all the advice we can, but we don't like repeating ourselves, so please search, search, and more search on any topic you can think of, we've probably written about it. Aside from that we love pictures, so when you find a car, show us what you've been doing and I promise we'll be interrested. Phar Some awesome advice in here! Thanks, and so far from searching through the forums I have found alot of useful info for when I get the Z car. Such as Bad Dog frame rails, putting the fuel cell in the spare tire, Nissan 4x4 brake upgrades, engine swap info, etc... I have plenty of questions that my perusing may not find but is still somewhere, but I am doing my level best to go through the FAQ's and absorb. The Z I found and really want is local to me but unfortunately the guy is not repsonding. Supposedly no rust (atleast visible) but possible frame bent. Hood doesn't latch but it drives straight. I'm keeping an eye out for a 240Z or 280Z. I just love the style, but wish they were 300 lbs. lighter! Posting the CL ad (I hope that's fine with mods) to see if anyone may recognize the car; it's in Philly area: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/2687562589.html I just can't get a response from them so hoping someone may know the car or even be on here. Edited November 17, 2011 by Cabanaboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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