Fuzzydicerule Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Hey guys. i thought id drop in and start a build thread on here, as its a much better place to get good answers than the thread in members projects (which seems to get almost no replys, and im not sure why i update it at this point. Small BG I bought this car last year, and in october, put it under the theoretical, and literal knife for an L28ET swap. I got a bit too ambitious and lo and behold, the thing hasnt driven farther than down my street since then. So i decided its time to get a real motor in there that actually has some aftermarket support, and tech support. the car when i got it, after a couple mods (it was one color when i got it, and was on steelies), amd the car as of when i decided to go the route of my LS swap. all of that info can be found in my thread in the members projects section, and is not pertinent to anything here. and my fuel cell with a true statement A short rundown on my build Car: 1972 240z. Engine: 1999 Firebird LS1, Unmodded with a cable throttle, FAST EFI and XFI Controllers Transmission: 99 Firebird T56, Speedway -3 AN adapter. NOS LS1 Clutch and Flywheel, HURST Short Throw. Differential: 300ZXTT R230 VLSD Exhaust: Home built headers (gonna try for longtubes) with either Dual 2.5 or 3" pipes, or a single 3, Depends entirely on space constraints and availible funds. Fueling: Fuel cell, Walboro pump, AN lines (ow, my wallet), Generic FPR that i will probably end up replacing... The decision to LS swap it came after months of absolutely no luck in getting the L28 to run. On wednesday, 5/2/12, i was toying around with the idea of buying a Mitsubishi starion and LS1 swapping that to use as a daily driver, then i thought about it, why end up with yet another car, when i can just do the same to my Z. As it turns out, my good friend had an LS1/T56/R230 lying around, and at this point, i havent paid for them. he also supplied alot of the extras as well. So The next night, i went and picked it all up. Luckily it all fit in my families old crappy van with a bit of finagling. The next morning (Friday, the 4th if you were paying attention) I unloaded it all at my house, Unfortunately i had to work that day, so i didnt get much done, but i was able to start disassembly that night after we pushed the car into the garage (and forced my cobra out onto the street, sadface), i also spent alot of money, I got a -High mount alternator kit, -Rolled fuel line (to replace my 3 piece Parts store special hard line, -assorted AN fittings and Braided hose, - Exhaust flanges, and -Water pump bolts, as well as the -3 AN fitting for the clutch and some misc fittings for that. Motor on its stand in the garage, along with all the extra bits Le nekkid motor THe next night, i got cracking some more, got my radiator out and my fluids drained, got her up in the air and pulled the transmission (im fairly proud of that one, from the first bolt turned on the bell housing to the time it was out of the car was about a 15 minute job, and i was alone... only other thing i accomplished that night was undoing the engine mount bolts My two comparisons, i sent these to my friends labelled "theyre totally the same size" luckily the Z has a monstrous trans tunnel That paved the way for today, after i got off work, i got the motor pulled in about 5 minutes, and had it sold not 20 minutes after that, and got the R200 removed tonight. Tomorrow me and some buddies are headed to the local pickapart and im gonna look for some 280z stub axles for my R230 swap, and a honda wiper motor to replace the dud i got on fleabay. Im also planning on sending in my order for the engine mounts through JCI. and im going to do a bit of disassembly and cleaning on the LS1. Lastly, after this novel of a post, i have a few questions for yous guys. 1: I Have a 280zx Radiator that i was going to use with the L28. I asked Johns opinion and he said to replace it, but i was wondering if anyone else had any luck with a similar radiator, OR, Where can i find an inexpensive aluminum radiator that will fit the S30, and adequately cool the LS1. 2: IS there anything i may be overlooking My apologies for this potentially being incomprehensible, its 3 AM and i dont know how im awake... Edited May 7, 2012 by Fuzzydicerule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Go to my build thread for any pointers - it is a novel located in the Gen III forum. My personal opinion is that the radiator portion of these builds is overemphasized. I think any radiator in good condition that fits would be fine. I have an ebay Champion 3-row that came with dual fans. It is nothing special and was not specially engineered for the V8, it is just a replacement and I only got it because it had a shroud that was made for electric fans and I didn't want to have to build any brackets to mount fans on my old radiator. Welcome to the world of LSx - you will love it. Edited May 7, 2012 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUNNY Z Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) WOOT. You'll love it. Looking forward to following this one. Also, I must pay respect to the cobra in the garage. I like dat one too. Paint scheme is great - I walk past a WW2 memorial on campus every day, and I've wanted to take a picture with my 280 next to it forever. haha keith good timing Edited May 7, 2012 by SUNNY Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Rebekah, you should be proud, your video of your inaugural burnout is what sealed the deal for me on the swap. Like not even koking, i was iffy on it, saw that video and was like "its happening" SUNNY: The cobra is my other car, currently my daily. my dads got a 1969 mach 1 which is under the cover next to it. Sadly the cobra gets to sleep outside for a while, but i think she will live. I just hope it doesnt rain, that thing needs tires badly... As far as the paint, im thinking of adding some battleship grey to the lower portion of the car, to get the kind of look Ratsun used on their 510 on their webpage. I should also point out one other thing. This swap is making me a hypocrate. (SP?) Since ive been familiar with these cars, ive always preached the 6 cylinder superiority, and thats the main reason i tried to stick with the L series. Hell not a month ago i was criticizing a dude who had an LS1 in a 280 (not aggressively, but i gave him that spiel. Shows how fast opinions can change, and i guess i will always have a secret place in my heart for V8's pus you cant argue with the fact that its no heavier and moves weight back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Anybody have any input on the pros and cons of building my own trans mount vs getting the JCI one. Im for sure buying his motor mounts. i like that they are bolt in, and i hate making them. as far as the the trans mount, i heard tell that it is kind of flimsy. would i be better off just making my own out of flat stock or c channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Anybody have any input on the pros and cons of building my own trans mount vs getting the JCI one. Im for sure buying his motor mounts. i like that they are bolt in, and i hate making them. as far as the the trans mount, i heard tell that it is kind of flimsy. would i be better off just making my own out of flat stock or c channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Anybody have any input on the pros and cons of building my own trans mount vs getting the JCI one. Im for sure buying his motor mounts. i like that they are bolt in, and i hate making them. as far as the the trans mount, i heard tell that it is kind of flimsy. would i be better off just making my own out of flat stock or c channel? Suscribed ! We're not that far from each other. I'm doing a LS Vortec 4.8 with a 76mm turbo strapped to it. I'm putting my engine together right now and trying to finish the rear suspension/diff. I still need a T56 and I need to do my wiring. I have the JCI engine mount kit but not the tranny mount yet. Good luck ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Having done this, I would still buy JCI trans mount to get phase angles right, but I would then use it as a template or modify it for better fit. The only job of the trans mount is to support weight and locate the tail housing at the right angle. The JCI mount does these things well. What it does poorly is that it conforms poorly to the trans tunnel so you have to hammer the tunnel to get it to fit and it could have better angles in the "c-notches" that poorly allow for exhaust passage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfritts911 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Woo! Another LS build! You made the right call going LSx swap, I promise you won't be disappointed, they are fantastic motors. If you have a welder, I wouldn't hesitate to build a trans mount. Mine is literally a piece of flat stock with a little raise tab to bolt the tranny to, its a cake walk to make. Why did you decide to go with the high mount alternator? The stock F-body location fits. I see you are planning on doing custom headers, you look like you are aways off so I will probably have mine built before you, so keep your eye out for my header build thread. Also if you are confident enough to fab your own headers, I wouldn't hesitate to go ahead and do your own motor and tranny mounts. My build thread has pictures of how I did mine, and I like the way they came out. As for the radiator, I used a radiator from a Chevy G10 van with the V6. It was dirt cheap off rock auto(Like 70 bucks), is the exact same physical size as the radiator JCI sells, and has the same core thickness as the stock LS1 radiator. Only difference between it and the LS1 radiator, is it is about 5 inches shorter so it fits in between the frame rails. The LS1s by nature don't seem to run hot, I don't have a temp gauge atm to confirm, but unless you are doing some road racing or something, I dont see it being a problem. The stock upper hose fits if you take a section out of the middle, and I used the same half of 2 lower hoses for the bottom. Oh and I like the paint job by the way! Looking forward to seeing more progress! -Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) If you are going to make your own headers, think about doing dump tubes thru the inner fenders. Multiple tubes exiting thru the fender ala Spitfire or P51 Mustang would be AWESOME and consistent with your paint scheme. I wouldn't even care if you did fake tubes, (but you know how I feel about the art of illusion). I would have done it, but my brake booster is in the way. It looks like you have taken care of that. You would need to relocate your battery, which isn't a big deal. AN lines are not that expensive, so worry not. Get them from Speedwaymotors.com. They have a house-brand high pressure push-on style fittings that are really easy to assemble and are reasonably inexpensive; just remember to add 1/4" on each end to account for the length lost due to the expansion of the hose as it passes over the barbs on the fittings. Have it - love it. Do spend the extra money for a set of AN wrenches. Your fuel cell looks great. With that sump, you are on the way to success. Probably a third of my project was redoing the fuel tank, and I am still not happy with it. You already have that licked. Edited May 8, 2012 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Suscribed ! We're not that far from each other. I'm doing a LS Vortec 4.8 with a 76mm turbo strapped to it. I'm putting my engine together right now and trying to finish the rear suspension/diff. I still need a T56 and I need to do my wiring. I have the JCI engine mount kit but not the tranny mount yet. Good luck ! My ******* friends keep telling me to put boost on this one, but i dont think i will, i kind of want to keep it stock for a bit, although i dont know how long that will last. Having done this, I would still buy JCI trans mount to get phase angles right, but I would then use it as a template or modify it for better fit. The only job of the trans mount is to support weight and locate the tail housing at the right angle. The JCI mount does these things well. What it does poorly is that it conforms poorly to the trans tunnel so you have to hammer the tunnel to get it to fit and it could have better angles in the "c-notches" that poorly allow for exhaust passage. I Committed and bought it today anyway. I will probably modify it, but its gonna make life easier, i hate making engine and trans mounts... Woo! Another LS build! You made the right call going LSx swap, I promise you won't be disappointed, they are fantastic motors. If you have a welder, I wouldn't hesitate to build a trans mount. Mine is literally a piece of flat stock with a little raise tab to bolt the tranny to, its a cake walk to make. Why did you decide to go with the high mount alternator? The stock F-body location fits. I see you are planning on doing custom headers, you look like you are aways off so I will probably have mine built before you, so keep your eye out for my header build thread. Also if you are confident enough to fab your own headers, I wouldn't hesitate to go ahead and do your own motor and tranny mounts. My build thread has pictures of how I did mine, and I like the way they came out. As for the radiator, I used a radiator from a Chevy G10 van with the V6. It was dirt cheap off rock auto(Like 70 bucks), is the exact same physical size as the radiator JCI sells, and has the same core thickness as the stock LS1 radiator. Only difference between it and the LS1 radiator, is it is about 5 inches shorter so it fits in between the frame rails. The LS1s by nature don't seem to run hot, I don't have a temp gauge atm to confirm, but unless you are doing some road racing or something, I dont see it being a problem. The stock upper hose fits if you take a section out of the middle, and I used the same half of 2 lower hoses for the bottom. Oh and I like the paint job by the way! Looking forward to seeing more progress! -Will I went with the high mount alternator because it looks cleaner, and i dont want to have to extend my alternator wiring to the other side of the car... That and im using no other accessories and having the only two visible pullies be a tensioner and an idler is kinda lame. Im perfectly capable of building the mounts, i just dont want to... I hate all the level work involved and it is more tedious than i can handle. Im only building the headers because i dont want to spend a fortune, and i want longtubes. Ill be getting more done as soon as i can, so hopefully i wont be too far behind you on the headers, =P If you are going to make your own headers, think about doing dump tubes thru the inner fenders. Multiple tubes exiting thru the fender ala Spitfire or P51 Mustang would be AWESOME and consistent with your paint scheme. I wouldn't even care if you did fake tubes, (but you know how I feel about the art of illusion). I would have done it, but my brake booster is in the way. It looks like you have taken care of that. You would need to relocate your battery, which isn't a big deal. AN lines are not that expensive, so worry not. Get them from Speedwaymotors.com. They have a house-brand high pressure push-on style fittings that are really easy to assemble and are reasonably inexpensive; just remember to add 1/4" on each end to account for the length lost due to the expansion of the hose as it passes over the barbs on the fittings. Have it - love it. Do spend the extra money for a set of AN wrenches. Your fuel cell looks great. With that sump, you are on the way to success. Probably a third of my project was redoing the fuel tank, and I am still not happy with it. You already have that licked. Dont you dare tempt me like that., I think i would get tired of that exhaust very quickly though, maybe if i do some mid- length headers i could hook up some cutouts to run up and do a fender exit like that though, definatly worth a thought, but i dont particularly plan on keeping this paint scheme anywho. AN isnt expensive heh? tell that to my bank account. ive got everything i need already coming though... Anywho. Updates. I spent most of the day at my local pick a part, and shittily, came home with nothing. I went to try and find a 280z for the stubs and one hard only had a single 240, and the other had an auto 280, which i understand still have the 25 spline stubs. and to top that off, i didnt have a large enough socket to fit any of the Q45's spindle nuts, so i couldnt source any axles either... it kind of sucked. After that i sent out my purchase order through JCI for the Motor and Tranny mounts. When i got home, i continued dismantling the LS to clean it out and reseal it, i got the heads off today, cleaned the carbon off the pistons and the combustion chambers, everything looks good, but i saw a couple things that unnerved me slightly, First off, the number 1, 5 and 4 i believe have small nicks in the face of the piston from what looks like the intake valves. the valves themselves are not damaged and seal on those particular cylinders. Anyone else notice anything like that on their motors? Second, the number two (and potentially some on bank 2, i havent done anything with that head yet so i dunno) valves dont seem to seal very well. I was using brake cleaner to clean dust and buildup out of the heads and noticed a dribble out the valves, both intake and exhaust on number two... It was not alot, but definately existant. Is this something i should worry about. I dont really have the fundage to go rack up a machine shop bill, nor do i want to wait for it. Im thinking i may just pull and lap the valves to the seats to see if i can get them to seal well on my own, and it will give me a chance to replace the valve stem seals... I almost dont want to bother because im thinking of upgrading the Heads/Cam/Intake on this motor down the road, so a slight bit of compression loss i dont think will be a gigantic deal... Anywho, i didnt finish reassembly obviously, but i got it as dismantled as its going to get, hopefully. With all luck, my Oil pan will be here tomorrow (ebay so probably not) and i know my Fuel system crap will show up, so i can redo my lines and get the undercar ready. To-Do List -Reassemble Motor, New gaskets and such. -Clean motor and tranny to be at least presentable -Make and install new fuel lines -Recieve and install Oil pan -Recieve and install TOB -3 AN Adapter, and make a line to meet up to my clutch line -Recieve JCI mounts -Install motor and trans -Button up fuel system -Install Wiring harness(es) -Build headers/exhaust -Purchase and install a radiator with hoses. -Install the R230 (bought my other CV's, Need to source Stub axles and purchase the Companion flanges and axles, and build mounts for it.) -Measure for Custom Driveshaft (john has said he can make one for the 6 bolt R230.) -Beat the snot out of it, something ive wanted to do since i bought it More to come, its my goal to get at least one thing done every day. Usually is after work, lucky for me i am an insomniac =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wfritts911 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just a heads up, LSx head bolts are torque to yield, and are not meant to be reused. Just pointed that out since it looks like you kept track of which bolts go where. Also if you look on LS1tech, you can find stock heads really cheap. Also have fun cleaning the graphite head gasket material off, it is a real pita. I would advise either putting the head bolts back in, or stuffing the holes with paper towels to keep crap from getting in the holes. I used a plastic ice scraper for the majority of the scraping, it worked but took a while. Definitely use the MLS gaskets instead of the graphite ones when you reassemble. If you don't plan on it, it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the slave cylinder/TOB/Pilot bearing while the tranny is out. Also you say the number 2 cylinder and possibly some on bank 2, the cylinders are numbered 1,3,5,7 on the drivers side and 2,4,6,8 on the passenger side, unlike that crazy Ford stuff . So if I have it correct, the number 2 cylinder you mention is actually cylinder 3. Just though I would point that out as well. Anyways looks like you will be making some good progress in the coming weeks. I am going to try and make long tubes as well, but I might end up chickening out an making shorties lol. -WIll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Not to worry, i assumed as much so i bought new ones. I see what you mean about the gasket, that was a pita, but its off so its whatever. I spent today getting the buildup cleaned off and then i reassembled the motor, unfortunately, your suggestion is too little too late, as its already reassembled with a set of fel pro gaskets. I have the top end reassembled, but after i got the intake torqued and the fuel rails, VC's and COil packs on, i realized i forgot to put my knock sensor plugs back in. >_< Before i go pull my intake im going to go verify that they are required with the FAST setup. Does anyone know that off hand? Annoyingly, i also bought the wrong oil pan (the motor has a GTO Front sump pan), i bought the first rear sump i saw, not realizing that truck pans wouldnt work. then i noticed the bolt pattern on the trans, and swore to myself. Aside from those two setbacks, the motor is basically ready to go in., just need to wait for my fuel lines and build those, and get the mounts. Annoyingly, im running out of money, so i cant afford my R230 swap parts quite yet, so i may need to wait even after i get the motor and trans in ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 (edited) Not to worry, i assumed as much so i bought new ones. I see what you mean about the gasket, that was a pita, but its off so its whatever. I spent today getting the buildup cleaned off and then i reassembled the motor, unfortunately, your suggestion is too little too late, as its already reassembled with a set of fel pro gaskets. I have the top end reassembled, but after i got the intake torqued and the fuel rails, VC's and COil packs on, i realized i forgot to put my knock sensor plugs back in. >_< Before i go pull my intake im going to go verify that they are required with the FAST setup. Does anyone know that off hand? Annoyingly, i also bought the wrong oil pan (the motor has a GTO Front sump pan), i bought the first rear sump i saw, not realizing that truck pans wouldnt work. then i noticed the bolt pattern on the trans, and swore to myself. Aside from those two setbacks, the motor is basically ready to go in., just need to wait for my fuel lines and build those, and get the mounts. Annoyingly, im running out of money, so i cant afford my R230 swap parts quite yet, so i may need to wait even after i get the motor and trans in ... Man I've been selling stuff in my garage to afford stuff(old parts from my M3,integra, various other Honda's) and it still taking time. It'll all be worth it in the end though. I originally was going to drop in a Rb25det/RbZ32TT tranny. I had the tranny already but no engine. Then I started researching and found that it would be easier to get to my whp goal(550-650) with a LS1. Plus parts are not as easy to come by or as cheap when compared to a LS engine. I was trying to sell the 4.8 I'm using now(got from my dad) to get rb parts but after my the research I that both engines weigh roughly the same(a slightly heavier on the V8), So I convinced myself but now I need a t56(roughly the same amount for a RB engine). Rather then try and save up for a tranny I spent on suspension, drivetrain, brakes and fuel system(fuel cell, pump, braided lines, fittings). So its been a year now since the purchase of my 74' 260z($450)! Recycling plastic, cans, bottles has helped out too. Goodluck ! Edited May 9, 2012 by Daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Haha. Glad I'm not the only one. Once I get paid and sell the last couple bits from my l28 (still have about a grand worth of crap to sell) ill buy the mounting kit. I just need to find someone with 280z stubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I found out the fast setup doesn't use the knock sensors, woohoo! My intake can stay on. My fuel line crap came in today as well so I can make those tonight after work( where I am stuck now. :/. ) and the CORRECT oil pan shipped today, with any luck this thing will be in the car next week... I also took wrfritts' advice and bought a new slave, tob and pilot bearing today as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 tuff z Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Subscribed! On the tranny mount, I have the JCI and don't like it for the same fact that Rebakah'z stated-it does NOT conform to the trans tunnel. Check SUNNYZ's-made his own and allows significantly better exhaust clearance. For the headers suggest you read the LT thread here. Many pages and lots of good info. Now that my install is complete I also added some 'do over' items at the end of the thread. Great build & love the WWII paint scheme too! Anybody have any input on the pros and cons of building my own trans mount vs getting the JCI one. Im for sure buying his motor mounts. i like that they are bolt in, and i hate making them. as far as the the trans mount, i heard tell that it is kind of flimsy. would i be better off just making my own out of flat stock or c channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 ill modify the JCI mount, it shouldnt be an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 This picture makes me want to go cut up the rear end of my car... haha. Good looking project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzydicerule Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 glad i could be of assistance =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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