Tony D Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Still not sure what you mean, Tony, I can't think of any way to "double key" the crank pulley without removing the crankshaft to machine it. I used to have a hand-operated keyway slotter, kind of like a drawknife but it was sized for SBC applications. it took A Long Time, but you could key the crank snout in the car with it. Yep, you are as old as I am, apparently! The Japanese use one long key... ( your drawknife) Or double up woodruff keys axially to perform similarly. The Dowelling is really another bandaid solution, but it becomes functionally necessary to,transmit the torque if you are unable to get the "engineering theory of face friction" to work reliably. Case in point: SPG 8-Dowelling of VW Flywheels... High torque transmission? Dowelling will do it! Go look at horsepower requirements to get 390CFM at 12PSI... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Well, according to Eaton the HP drive at 7000RPM should be about 36HP. I'm only 25, but have a lot of old tools laying around. I'm thinking I may drill and dowel the crank 180* from the woodruff key, so that in the future I can get the crank properly keywayed and the damper to match, when the crank comes out of the car. (I can key the damper here, and I can do the crank here, but I can't do the crank while it's still in the car.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Remember you're also turning a centrifugal water pump at over 30 GPM and 45 PSI, as well as an alternator making maybe 35A(12V~14.2VDC)=497W...p Alternator is meh... Water pump is big power as well. Using a gates cog belt with the quiet HTD profile allows lower belt tensions and longer accessory life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I am going to have a look at doweling the crank snout and damper interface tomarrow morning. It's looking like an 0.093" dowel will fit nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 The doweling is unique, four would be nice I just don't know of the feasibility of it without a precision jig to get them straight. In theory you could 'half dowel' it, splitting the interface between pulley and crank snout so the dowel was locking the pulley on more than just the front flange under the washer. The crank washer will likely cover and retain any dowel without much issue. Even half-covering is more than enough. Take Photos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 That's the plan, actually. An axially aligned dowel pin retained by the crank bolt clamping washer, which would provide stock removal to speed up the keying process at a later date when the crank and damper are removed again. I'd only have to square out the bottoms of the channels, and install a square key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ok, this marathon weekend is finally over. Almost.Planning the next big weekend probably next month, might have a transmission swap between now and later. It all has to be done before May, though, so I can have some time to tune it.Here's where we started.Not much room for the supercharger belt there.So, we'll fix that right up. Here's the stock radiator with the two fans on it, as it was run in the car, next to the new Supra radiator.And in the car:Loads more room than before. Even have enough room to make a proper fan shroud now!Have to notch the frame to get it in there, this is a wide bastard of a radiator.While I'm this far in, I am sealing the A/C condenser core to the core support to help with flow through that too.And we'll call this land...uh...This Land!Still need to move the crank position sensor...it'll be in the way of the supercharger belt where I had it. I moved it to the stock 1981 turbo location:There, that's done. Might have to trim it to clear the A/C belt but we'll get there later. All my belt sizes changed because the new damper is larger in diameter.Here's the supra radiator fitted into place and mocked up:This is how I did the lower mount, it's actually not welded in place here, but is stitched to the lower core support along the front, and the cutouts in the frame are completely boxed back into place.Radiator in place, Belts on!But my fan shroud is a little wonky...And I'm out of Argon in the TIG tank. It'll do for now, but I don't have any photos of the finished shroud, or even the make-do shroud. (And it's a pain in the ass to get on and off the car!)I used the material I had on hand, and it had that 8x3" section cut out already. Most of that is cut away for a 12" fan anyway, but I'll weld a section into place later in the week. I'm running both the 12" fan and the 10" fan that I had on my stock radiator, but only the 12" is hooked up right now...and it's running full-tilt all the time until I can get the thermostat worked out. I don't like the brass probe type that pushes through the fins, they cause leaks in aluminum radiators. They're "ok" on copper ones, but I still would prefer to have the 12" fan controlled by the computer, with the 10" fan coming on with the A/C compressor. That's how I'll eventually get them wired up.The stock L24 upper radiator hose fit fine, and I cut a segment from a ZX lower hose (the tight 80* bend) and spliced it onto the stock lower hose to get it to fit. Now that I know what the hose looks like, when the engine comes out again I'll take that hose with me to the parts store and find something similar to fit. For now, it doesn't leak even at 21PSI, and that's plenty good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 This thing is ungodly loud over 3500RPM. It's only moving air...the outlet is open to atmosphere right now to make sure the belt tensioner is correct and that everything lines up. At 6000RPM it's on par with the exhaust, they are competing for who's louder...and the driver is loosing...his hearing, that is. Hopefully with the air filter enclosed and the filter box covered in sound deadener, and the outlet plumbed into the intercooler, the noise will be somewhat reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Sprintex / Lysholm Screw Inlet Noise routinely exceeds 130 dBa Centrifugal inlets work to get above 110 dBa Turbofans like GE F100's can be over 120 dBa at idle speed, right around 15,000Hz and get quieter under load! They're loud and irritating because the frequency of the passing elements puts it dead smack in the auditory range of humans. Edited March 19, 2013 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 I knew an unthrottled roots blower was loud, sure. (and a twinscrew is even louder!) Just driving around it's not bad. When the power would be coming in....it's letting you, and EVERYONE within a mile know...that there is work being done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Try a twin-screw industrial Lysholm Dry Screw around 2500HP and sporting a 32" inlet throttling valve... Imagine what a run up and loading on THAT monster would sound like! Sucked in a pigeon... Didn't skip a beat.... Gore in the intercooler, I was off chicken for a while after cleaning up that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstarrocker Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Are you getting any belt slip? I've had issues in my VW with a smaller charger and more belt wrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I have had some, as evidenced by belt powder all over the bay. The belt doesn't appear worn at all, and it's tensioned to 180lbs, which is the maximum running tension for a 6-rib belt. I did have to re-tension it after the first two days, as it had stretched. And all of this is with no compressor load! I'm just dumping the air out through the core support right now, I have *got* to get that intake manifold machined and the fuel rail finished up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 The only lysholm I have is a 2.4" rotor diameter, 5.25" rotor length, 3/5 lobe setup that is currently dismantled due to needing some unobtanable seals. I've put it all aside for now, as I have to get the car running and driving on boost by the 25th of May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstarrocker Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think if you can redesign the tensioner so the pulley sits closer to the charger pulley, and adjusts straight up and down or with an angle towards the charger pulley, you'll have less issues with slip. Please excuse the crude paint drawing: untitled.bmp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Ditch the 6 rib belt and get some good Gates HTD belts in there with the new profile so they don't make your car sound like a Honda! You can run a LOT less belt tension on a positive drive cog belt, and yes, if you put it driving your other accessories it's a PITA, but most people I've seen bolt a supplementary pulley on in front of everything else... in which case you make some Cog-Drive Pulleys and stop with this crazy tension! You got an unmuffled roots blower, an HTD belt won't be that annoying! What seals are you looking for? Can you post a photo? I know some suppliers in Europe that made these things... I was on the design project that reverse-engineered the Atlas Copco Twin Screw (Z-Element) and worked on the Rebuild Program... Edited March 21, 2013 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) It's a Mazda Millenia S Supercharger; it's an IHI unit that uses Lysholm 1200AX rotors. The old seals don't last, it was a pressurized oil unit and I am looking to convert it to sealed operation. I won't even get back to it until after Branson Z fest, so it may be a while. My intention was to find a teflon lip seal that would fit the housing, or the housing could be machined to fit, for the 17mm shaft diameter. The rear bearing housing often has a teflon seal fitted, and Eaton's needle bearing grease packed into it and the oiling ports blocked off, while the front bearing assembly retains the crappy IHI dynamic seals and fills the gearcase with 50wt synthetic. I'm looking to fit the teflon seals all the way round, then leave the full oiling system intact, but fill the gearcase and rear supply reservoir with a proper 50wt synthetic. After getting this thing cleaned of 5 years of 10W30 engine oil, of course! After re-tensioning the belt using a tension gauge, the slipping is 100% stopped. I have more belt wrap on both pulleys than the OEM application, with the OEM belt size, and the drive ratio is less than the stock 2.5:1 that the OEM application used. I even looked at the OEM balancer assembly, and it only uses 1 key that is even smaller than the datsun key. Once I get the crank pinned properly I don't forsee any major issues with slip or crank snout damage, but we'll see when I get it there. New clutch/flywheel is ready to install, and I'm only waiting on the mainshaft and countershaft nuts for the transmission rebuild and re-installation. Edited March 23, 2013 by Xnke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Yeah a double Teflon seal should seal well enough. You can machine them deeper run twin singles (5mm width) and put positive buffer pressure in there. Orient properly for vacuum/positive pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Right now, I've solved the belt-slip problem...the tensioner is flexing. I need to add another support to it, to keep it from rolling downward on acceleration. Simple enough, a simple wedge block behind the tensioner pressing on the timing cover plate fixed it last night; I'll weld the block in place and call it gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted March 28, 2013 Author Share Posted March 28, 2013 Have a paying job coming up again, so next week will be tight on getting the car ready for the show in Branson, but I have a little time this weekend. Remaking the fuel rail this evening, going to be welding the new regulator back on and if things go well...I'll have a little adventure in anodizing. I did it back in high school, but I gave all my stuff away. Might wait till later in the summer and I'll anodize the rail later. Plan is to fit the proper supports into place to keep the belt tensioner from flexing, and run the poly-v belt setup to allow belt slip if something bad happens to the super. This also limits the load on the crank pulley, and gives me more time to machine proper cog-belt drive pulleys, which I might do eventually...if the need arises. This particular super won't need them, as it will push at most 10lbs of boost and that will be pushing it hard. I'll need to fit an M90, which would be tough due to the space allowed, or get a TVS1320 to work with. ($$$$!) The TVS1320 would fit neatly in the same place, displaces 81CI each revolution, meaning a lower overdrive ratio needed to achive the same boost, and it ultimately flows 1300CFM instead of 800...which gives much more headroom and lower drive requirements! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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