AZGhost623 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Car has run once since being completely rebuilt, and has not run since in over a month. Triple weber's (DCOE45), and electromotive ignition. Sent computer off to manufacturer, tested good. All diagnostic tests I can do here do show ok on the ignition. Carbs are brand new. Fuel tank has been refurbed professionally. Pulled all spark plugs, #2 looks the worst, #4 looks brand new still has polish on it. Cranked engine with no plugs in to see if any gas was spewing out and its not so nothing stuck open. Looked at main jets, and idle jets, none are plugged. Have not pulled the top off the carbs yet to check floats/needle valves (i dont even know what to do at that point or look for). Inline fuel pressure gauge shows 6 psi to carbs when fuel pump is on. All coil packs show the same resistance when I ohm it all out. I basically followed this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zhgsnyZWw as a general rule of thumb. Since they are all the same I have to assume its good. I cant imagine all 6 going bad at once? I dont have a very big spark on any plug, but Im told by the manufacturer this is ok, its not going to look like a normal spark. (which makes no sense to me but whatever) Plug wires are all good as well, double check them and resistance through the wire. They vary by .3 ohms depending on length, so all good there. Basically all that Im aware of that has been done to the car from when it ran to its current state, is the exhaust was put on. I have verified all grounds, and wiring. I even bypassed the entire wiring harness on the car to the batter directly with same results. Battery currently shows 12.3v This is going on two weeks now trying to figure this out. I need some guidance as Im completely lost at this point. Edited March 15, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 6psi of pressure at the carbs will overpower the floats. Set pressure to 3-3.5psi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 I was told not to use a pressure regulator with carbs. I assume from your comment I should go invest in one? Thats a very easy enough fix if that be the case. I need to run to Oreily anyways to get something else, so Ill look for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I was told not to use a pressure regulator with carbs. I assume from your comment I should go invest in one? Thats a very easy enough fix if that be the case. I need to run to Oreily anyways to get something else, so Ill look for one. Yes, regulate pressure down to 3psi or so. Whoever told you that is ignorant of how these carbs work. Must be used to small blocks and 4-barrels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Well I bought a 30$ Mr Gasket regulator #9710 at Oriellys (5 to 1 psi) and it does nothing no matter what I adjust it to. Ill have to get something else to check this out further, Its all they had on hand. Junk! Can anyone recommend one off hand? Edited March 15, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Can you add Carb cleaner/Starting fluid to the carbs and see if it will start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 I can try that. Im going back to basics this weekend. Double/triple checking everything. I replaced the fuel filter this evening (I have one before the fuel pump) and a glass one before the carbs. Some fine grit came out. when I drained it. I somewhat expected that from how messed up that tank was and how they had to go about cleaning it. Electromotive finally got back to me today, and told me how to properly test spark on their system, which wasnt the old fashion way, so Im doing that tomorrow. I also got a TDC tool, so Im going to find TDC, and check to make sure its correct on the pulley and trigger wheel. A guy at work scared me saying he had an old BMW M3 that had the pulley shear the key off on the crank. I seriously doubt this could have happened but I guess anythings possible which is why I am checking everything TDC out. I did find my electric waterpump is messing with the magnetic pickup assembly on the trigger wheel when the water pump is on. I left the ignition on while the pump was going, and the controller would go read on occasion, sometimes just stay red light. Pulled fuse to water pump, and controller has been green since. So too much EMI/EMF coming off that pump, which causes the controller to go red (unreadable to pickup) so I need to shield the waterpump which im going to do tomorrow as well with EMI/EMF tape. I may also try to shield the sensor as well. I wonder if any megasquirt guys have had that problem before. Should have just kept a stock waterpump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) So this is where Im at... all coil towers test good. spark is good good fuel flow into carbs Pulled lids off all carbs, and inspected, everything looks to be ok. float moves freely, and float valve works ok. All carbs have gas in them carb spray didnt change anything "progession well" looks good. throttle plate is behind all 3 holes idle screw... not sure on. I have it about 6 turns up on each one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXEofAeBPDE Anyone else got some ideas? This is very close, I can feel it. I think timing is about at 16 ish... My next step is to go through each carb and clean everything out one at a time. I couldnt imagine needing to goto that level on something brand new at this point. Edited March 17, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Tried to start a 63 Pontiac Bonnevile once, that had only sat for one year. It just wouldn't fire even though it had spark and good fuel. A farmer drove by on his tractor and told us to squirt some oil in the cylinders. It started right up with a big cloud of blue smoke. Maybe your cylinders dried out and you're not getting good compression. With new unseated rings, it's probably more likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 very interesting... any idea how much? tablespoon ish...? Im going to do some more adjustments, drain all the carbs, and ill try your oil trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duragg Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hey Ghost I am back from S.D. later today and maybe can stop by. From our offline conversation let me add: I personally would dump the bowls and start over. Pull idle jet stack, pull out idle jet from holder, clean, note the stamped size and then replace LIGHTLY in the holder. Just barely insert and then carefully replace in body and as you screw it in you will feel the body gently pushing the jet into the right position. Adjust butterfly visually on all 6 to cover the prog hole closest to engine so when u shine a light from inlet side you see light from only the outboard 2 holes and the hole closest to engine is obscured by the butterfly EDGE. Doesn't hurt to talk nice to them, buy them cigarettes, wine etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hey man, you got thinking when you said to drain those carbs. Im wondering if we didnt get all the bad fuel out of the line. We sucked it out, but maybe we didnt get it all out, and we have bad gas in the carbs. Carbs like cigarettes? Damn... Ive been feeding it chocolate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Well Duragg, you were on the money. Took me most of the afternoon, but I drained the carbs, and cleaned everything with carb cleaner. Engine started right up on first try. Idle is very very rough and the AFM gauge is off the chart. Ill go and try to adjust it as much as I can from what I know, but Im no expert yet on these webers. The idle seems a bit low as it chugs when it gets down to about 800 rpm or so. But may just be the carbs that need adjusting all over again. Im wondering if we didnt get all the "bad" gas out of the line. We sucked it out with a tool, but only ran it once. Im wondering if some residual crap was still in there and made its way into the float bowl. Edited March 17, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duragg Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Hopefully we can get together this week. Probably need to dump the whole gas tank... I can bring you some 100LL which is super-stable. It tunes very close to the same as Car gas (nasty evil garbage). Glad you are making progress. Tj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) yeah, something is up, because I had it sit for about an hour and its a very tough start again. It started up, but then died quickly after i let my foot off the pedal to try and get it to idle. Its pretty lean now from what the spark plugs are telling me. For some reason spark plugs 4 & 5 are still pristine white. The AFM gauge was about 10.5 to 11. I filled the tank with premium about a month ago. I put in about 5 gallons, and then about another 3-5 was added to try and refresh it earlier this month. Maybe its a bunch of residual crap from the coating they did on the inside of the tank when it was sent out for refurbishment? Atleast I have it narrowed down now, thats key. I could be way off on my carb settings now too. I tried to tune it by ear when it was running. Im curious to know if its the bad gas thats causing that obnoxius clacking... Could be timing I guess too. which is just roughly set. But very exciting, first time ever its moved under its own power. I would turn your volume down before playing, its kinda loud. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi00aVMmtpI Edited March 18, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Terrible... pumped all the gas out after I got home from work. It was a nice brown color. Looks like tea actually. Going to have to drain and clean the carbs out again. I cant imagine premium gas (From Quicktrip) in a tank for 45 days would do this? Does gas usually go bad that quickly?? Im hoping its just the chemicals/treatment the gas tank refurbishers used that may have caused this, and wont be an ongoing problem now the tank has been drained. Since the compression has been raised to 11+, im wondering how much bad gas is going to affect it. Is this going to be a common reoccurence Im going to be dealing with? Edited March 22, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGhost623 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Duragg came over to help me get my carbs tuned. But i wanted to pull the head because of the loud valve clacking on the video above... Heart breaking is all I can say. Got it mostly put back together, but #6 needs expert service to get it fixed and then have a valve job to ensure everything is ok. Some rockers got some bad scruff on it from this. Filled the #6 cylinder with rope to keep the valve from falling in. Car has less than 20 minutes of run time on it (IF THAT!), and maybe 2 minutes of road time while I turned the car around last weekend. Not sure how exactly this could have happened. Unless repeated starting/testing of other various components caused things to get lose. Sent an email over to the guy who built in California and asked WTF. Its passed its warranty period which was only 90 days. Its just taken 7 months to get to this point where I could have it drivable per say. Edited March 23, 2013 by AZGhost623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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