m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 So today after wrapping up a painstaking exhaust build, I went to fire up my 1977 and nothing, no sign of any power whatsoever. Of the Battery, terminals, and fusible links seem fine. Unfortunately the car is stored out of town, and was supposed to come home today, so I'm thinking I'll might the trek out tomorrow evening. I was hoping to put together a checklist. Here's some background: - Car was put in storage last December, battery was disconnected immedialte - Building was broken into, wheels were stolen off my car, along with all my tools. car was rummaged through, but no signs of being vandalized - I did some work on the car, replaced transmission, diff, installed rear mount sway bar and built a new exhaust (was careful with ground placement). No electrical work done unless you count removing the starter for the trans swap. I did install a somewhat unkown ZX starter, but that seems irrelevant. Some suspicious things to note:http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/m1ghtymaxXx/IMG_2609.jpg harness power wire look to have been replaced. They look like they're wrapped in electrical tape, but done very neatly. That's not factory is it? Also the abundance of connectors on the negative and positive side, along with some shady looking crimps. They do carry continuity though. Searching under the dash I found this: http://s5.photobucket.com/user/m1ghtymaxXx/media/IMG_2614.jpg.html Apologies for the blurry pic, but it's a plastic hose (similar to what might be used for rear window washers), wrapped in copper strand wire and insulated. It runs into the rocker through a factory looking grommet and I can't find the other end. It's clearly been slashed, but no sigh of what it connected into. I've been skimming through pages of search results, and the only relalvent thread I've found is this: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/98327-240z-lost-all-electrical-power/?hl=no%20power it doesn't specify what year, but so far the voltage gauge is the first on my list of things to check. I still have to go over the wiring diagrams and see and make a list of a potential culprits, but if anyone can offer insight on typical issues that can cause this, it would be much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 So does nothing mean you have no lights, no horn, and no engine cranking?,. I'm not sure what you consider the usual suspects, get a voltmeter and a test light. I would start at the battery, Make sure it has 12 volts. If it doesn't replace it. Clean up the terminals and posts. Check all the fuses inside the car and the fuse links under the hood. Replace the fuses or links if you find any bad ones. Make sure the large power wire at the starter has 12 volts at the starter. If you have all of those, check the smaller wire at the starter, it only has power when the key is turned to the crank position. if you have 12 volts at that smaller wire the starter is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 So does nothing mean you have no lights, no horn, and no engine cranking?,. I'm not sure what you consider the usual suspects, get a voltmeter and a test light. I would start at the battery, Make sure it has 12 volts. If it doesn't replace it. Clean up the terminals and posts. Check all the fuses inside the car and the fuse links under the hood. Replace the fuses or links if you find any bad ones. Make sure the large power wire at the starter has 12 volts at the starter. If you have all of those, check the smaller wire at the starter, it only has power when the key is turned to the crank position. if you have 12 volts at that smaller wire the starter is bad. Yes, no lights, no horn, interior lights, no cranking, no door buzzer, no sign of life whatsoever. Battery voltage was good. terminals were fine, I was getting a ground reading the same as the battery voltage from the engine and chassis. The fusble links are good. Hoping for some guidance on where to go from here. Going to work my way down the line from here, but hoping for some insite on typical things that can cause this, besides the usual battery/terminals/fusible links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 So I take it the link in the first post regarding a similar problem being traced back to a voltage gauge is 240z specific. I found a nice colour wiring diagram here: http://4moores.com/280z/files/77_ZCAR-WIRING.pdf I would think the issue must lie before the fusible link box, since that seems to be the first distribution point between various harnesses. Also I guess the seemingly redundant connectors on the positive wire running along the firewall contain a length of fusible link. Does anyone know if the + and - that run along the firewall are spiral wound in what looks like electrical tape? Just wondering if that's factory. My current game plan is to jump a positive to the fusible link box and see if that remedies things. Beyond that I'm at a bit of a loss here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 This really seems like something under the hood has lost power. You still have more things to check, 12 volts at the ignition switch, 12 volts from the start side of the switch while turning the key? 12 volts at the starter, 12 volts at the alternator power wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 6, 2013 Author Share Posted May 6, 2013 This really seems like something under the hood has lost power. You still have more things to check, 12 volts at the ignition switch, 12 volts from the start side of the switch while turning the key? 12 volts at the starter, 12 volts at the alternator power wire. I don't think I was getting anything at the alternator positive. The fusible link block takes power from the + starter pole correct? I'm wondering if that could be the issue. Gonna make the trek out tonight and see if I can get it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttodhunter Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 How did you check the fusible link? Make sure both sides of each one have 12v; the hot side will always read battery voltage, you have to make sure it makes it to the other side of the link. You can also check the fuse panels hot side for voltage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ttodhunter, I'm going to assume even though i know its wrong when i do that, that he is using a voltmeter to test the components for proper voltage. I am also going to assume he knows to check both sides of the links and fuses for voltage. Lets see what info he comes back with so we can try to help him get the power back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morbias Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 You mentioned you replaced the starter; maybe you should check that again and make extra sure you wired it up correctly as that is the very first thing in the chain the positive pole of the battery connects to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) You mentioned you replaced the starter; maybe you should check that again and make extra sure you wired it up correctly as that is the very first thing in the chain the positive pole of the battery connects to. Bingo. Took a crack at it last night. This is embarrassing, but i still didn't get it fired, but I'm close. I have 2 starters kicking around, the stock 77 and a ZX, both have 2 identical sized posts, but one has a contact leading to the motor. It seemed logical to assume the battery cable would bolt to that one, while the white wire goes to the other, however wiring it this way gave me no signs of life until I go to crank the starter, then the dash voltage gauge would show about 4 volts and the starter would make a faint grinding noise. Then while attempting to jump the starter from the battery, I fumbled and touched the post the white wire was attached to, and all of a sudden the car came to life (fan and radio was left on). I left it the jumper connected and tried to start the car, but the solenoid didn't seem to be getting a signal and there wasn't so much as a click. I bench tested both starters and they spun fine. Then I switched the poles around and that just makes the starter run constantly. Clearly I'm just clueless how the wires are arranged at the starter. If anyone has a pic or diagram, think that would sort me out. FSM didn't seem to show it. Edited May 7, 2013 by m1ghtymaxXx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domzs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Wiring diag. shows that Black and White cables go to solenoid post ( right post if you are looking at it from the back , should be no wire attach to it ) and Black/Yellow is your starter signal which goes to spade connector ( on top ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) I'd say you're lucky you didn't burn any wires. The positive battery cable should go to the right large post on the starter. The spade connector comes from the key and gives the starter the signal to go. The Battery Neg should be connected to the frame or to the engine block. Least-wise that's how my car was setup. You should also buy a new Battery. Too low voltage can do bad things. Edited May 8, 2013 by Pharaohabq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexter72 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 You had said earlier that you checked the battery voltage, Remember that a newer battery can go bad if you leave accesories on like you stated you did. Get the starter wiring corrected and check to make sure everything in the car is working correctly. You may have caused an issue wiring up the starter incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 You had said earlier that you checked the battery voltage, Remember that a newer battery can go bad if you leave accesories on like you stated you did. Get the starter wiring corrected and check to make sure everything in the car is working correctly. You may have caused an issue wiring up the starter incorrectly. The battery was disconnected the entire time in storage. The fan and radio were probably turned while tearing the interior apart like an idiot looking for wiring issues under the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 8, 2013 Author Share Posted May 8, 2013 (edited) So the only issue is that I'm an utter tard. Despite doing this many times over the years, somehow this time around It never occurred to me that both wires share the same post. All is good Edited May 8, 2013 by m1ghtymaxXx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domzs Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Sh** happens . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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