Key sparks when touching door handle

[markib85]

Hey guys,

New to the forum, new to the 74' 260z 2x2 as well.

Long post, i do apologize but i figure i should provied a full picture to the best of my knowledge. Any and all advice is greatly appericated in advance, Thank You.

 

My roommate basically has had this car since high school, and in the past 10 years it got neglected. I started working on it cause i was bored. Anyway not a car guy so lots of reading trying to make sense of things and ask other car people questions and advice. Car is now running, almost never need the choke cable engaged to get it started even in cold weather. It has other issues i will list below but im concerned about a spark that keeps happening anytime the key touches the door lock to lock or unlock. Ive been driving it for a week and hadnt noticed the spark but i wasnt paying attention. The shifter was very loose, did some research figured it was the bushing so i took the center console apart unplugged everything and sure enough no bushing. Bought a nylon piece that fit from OSH, Dremled it a bit slipped it in. All in all pretty happy, still have a lot of play in 1st and 2nd so figure i got more problems but atleast i can find 1st and 2nd now. So putting everything back together i reconnect all the wires, car turns on runs fine everything looks like it was prior to the take apart however i get this spark when i go to lock the door. So i walk to the passanger door and try to put the key in there and i get a spark again. (It cant be my body and clothes as i just discharged on the driver door).

 

NOTE THE CENTER CONSOLE PICTURE PROVIDED SHOWS "FASTEN SEAT BELT", MY CARS SAYS "CHOKE"

1.   I noticed a black ground wire in my center console, when i was taking it apart it wasnt connected to anything so i attached it to the silver bar under the rear defogger and throttle toggle switch (the bar is connected to the chasi, figured this would be a good ground).

2.   Also im worried that the metal wire from the AC TEMP CONTROL dial between the REAR DEFOGGER and the THROTTLE TOGGLE might have gotten lose. I dont know what its for and there is no air conditioning unit in the car. (It was removed when it failed years ago). It does into the crazy mess in the dash, cant trace from there.

3.   There is also a plug in my center console that doesnt connect to anything, ive attached pictures below of the outside of plug as well was the inside.

4.   Earlier this week my tail lights/dash werent working, tried to resolder but it made no difference so i soldered them straight into the headlight. Pictures also below.

5.   Last possibilty is that i removed the wind shield wiper motor and that plug under the hood has nothing connected to it and for some reason is creating sparks?

 

So the above 5 things are what it could be cause the spark im assuming numbers 1,2, or 3 most likely. Being not so good with cars, and concerned and the fact that my gas tank leaks when i fill up all the way i decided i would disconnect my battery just because i dont want any charges sparking anything.

 

I would love some guidence on this issue, i know the weather in the bay are recently has been very dry, wet and cold so i understand that static electricty gets generated especially with the warmer clothing but to spark twice in less then 1 minute is kind of scary. 

 

Other things done to car to get it running:

-Replaced throttle cable.

-New battery (the negative side also has a ground attached to it)

-Turn singles were disassembled cleaned resoldered, added some solder to the inside of the switch also cause it just wouldn't catch.

-Shifter bushing

-Tail Light/Dash switch soldered directly into headlight

 

Things i need to do:

-New air conditioner unit

-Suspension is shot

-Fix leak with gas tank, (think its the neck leading to the tank)

-Center console guages work, (clock is always off), They do light up

-Speedo and Tach not functioning, They do light up

-E-brake must be fully engaged in order to work, and when fully disengaged light always flickers on dash "Brake"

-New light bulbs for interior of car (interior dome light, glove box, CHOKE, REAR DEFOGGER)

-Wind Shield wipers dont work (the motor clicks once but no action beyond that)

-Either axel or e-brake seem to lock up when car is cold, thus i get a jolt in 1st, 2nd, sometimes in 3rd.

-Tranmission i think needs some work, shifting into second it grinds sometimes so i go into 3rd instead

-RANDOM CLICKING NOSE WHEN CARS OFF FROM FRONT OF ENGINE, (between radiator and litterally front of engine)

-Need battery clamp mechanism to hold battery in palce (bungie cord right now)

-Door locks are a nightmare, and occasionally doors wont stay shut

 

Questions:

-In the driver side center console theres a toggle switch with no labels, assuming it was added post production. It has 2 blue wires coming out of it and goes into the steering column. Dont think it does anything, does anyone have any clues? (Roommate thinks it was cruise control switch added later)

-Under the driver seat theres a silver box with tons of wires, 1 blue wire is split. It says PACESETTER with a number dial and on/off switch. Any clues?

-A friend was saying maybe some SeaFoam into the gas tank, and engine, maybe the vacum lines inorder to get junk out. But SeaFoam scares the shit out of me so i want to hold of on it till someone experianced can help with it.

[clocker]

Seafoam is nothing to fear but it ain't gonna do anything to your vac lines.

 

Frankly, your entire electrical system seems hacked up and fubar'ed and needs a thorough going over.

It's bad enough to deal with the normal effects of aging and only gets worse when some yahoo has been meddling as well.

 

You really can't afford to have mystery boxes and switches tied into the harness...either figure out what they are or get rid of them.

 

Fortunately, the Z has a very rudimentary electrical system (especially if you're carbed instead of FI) and it's not hard to go through it and get it sorted properly.

[johnc]

You need to learn Automotive 101.  This is not really the site for that but there is a lot of informaiton here.  Download the factory service manual, read it, and spend a lot of time searching this site.  As said above you're car's electrical system has been hacked up and you need to get it back into stock condition.

[Pharaohabq]

Okay those past two posts weren't really answering your questions of a Spark when you touch the door with your key.   IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CAR.  It's you, and the dry weather.  That's why when you fill up always touch metal BEFORE putting the nozzle to your tank. 

 

Look at it this way.  Your car is a bubble, protected from everything electrically by the non-conductive rubber of your tires.  Even though it has batteries gas and an engine, that's all INSIDE the metal bubble of your car.  You yourself, are another bubble, protected by the rubber of your shoes.   Now Dry air is more of an insulator so you don't bleed off charges. These charges get built up as air moves around and electrons rub off on EACH "bubble"  (you, your car etc)  Thus charging that bubble with a charge. When you touch the bubble with your keys, the two charges equalize or if you're wearing leather or no shoes and your body is grounded. The Bubble will equalize with the ground.  The electrics of your car again have nothing to do with it.  Even discharging yourself to another object pole or your same car, you're just equalizing charges. That's why you can spark on one side, then spark on the other, since as soon as you let go of your car you both start charging separately.  If you change your shoes, you may have a different experience.   

 

Now to fix this, Wipe down your interior with a capful of Downey to a quart of water in a spray bottle, and add Downey to your clothes wash.  Downey helps items from building up a charge That should minimize the static shocks.

 

I hope that makes sense, if not I can draw you a picture. I even have crayons is that will make it easier.

[markib85]

HAHA, i got say thanks first. The other two post were actually a little annoying but that's what you get with forums. No crayons needed and what your saying is 8th grade chemistry knowledge. That said the reason i was concerned is that both doors passenger and driver sparked within less then a minute when i tried touching them (driver side sparked, so i went to passenger side to see if it was just discharge or problem, then it sparked also). I would think that i couldn't build up that kind of a charge in under 1 minute.

 

-Am i wrong?

-BTW, awesome response, had a long night and it def made me laugh.

[clocker]

I'd think that having a completely fucked up electrical system would be more annoying than not being aware of static discharge but you'll have that from time to time, I suppose.

[Pharaohabq]

Welcome to Hybridz. You've got to have a little thick skin, but there's tons of info on here.  Best thing I can tell you is to DL the FSM and read all the threads you can.

 

No problem though,  It's amazing what can build a charge. The important part is to keep in mind what make a circuit.  It can't be anything in your car because there's only the one connection point at the key.  You car's Chassis is ground as well so anything touching the car's chassis would already be grounded to itself, (and likely causing the smoke to escape) so you know it can't be anything internal to your car.  I assumed you weren't parks on any downed electrical lines or any external power sources so the only thing it could be is the static charges. Your mention of the especially dry air just added to that.  Sparks can be fun to play with, but you're right, When filling up you should be careful. So I should have said "WHILE inserting and filling with the nozzle" you want to be touching the car. That way you're equalized with the pump and with the car so you should be safe.

 

Another question we didn't answer is the Fuel leaking when full.  Well it's because you're overfilling. The Gas tank has a fill tube which causes overflow at the high fuel mark. That tube is in the tank, and some people have cut it shorter to allow more capacity, but it's not too often you'll overfill. Just know what your tank holds.  In modern cars that tube is connected back to the filler neck  to signal full when filling.  What can I say, gas was cheap in the 70's and I guess Datsun didn't care about a little spilliage.   There's a few threads about it on here, Search away..   

[markib85]

Pharaohabq

 

 

I will do some reading on the fill tube as i thought that might be the issue initially, but the mechanic who looked at this car last year told us to have the tank resealed as he thought there was a crack in it. Furthermore it smells like gasoline all the time.

[Pharaohabq]

Oh Some more of your Questions regarding the Electricals:

 

The Switch on the center console could be for the electric antenna. Early systems had a switch to raise and lower the ant. I think it was with blue wires, so I'd guess that.   

 

As for the other parts, you really need to Download the free FSM from the Xenons30 site and go through it.  If you get a multimeter it'll help, also a Toner will help a lot to get you familiar with the wires.  Remember always test to ground (Chassis) first.  The wiring isn't really that hard when you start to get into it. Yes there's a lot of wires, but they all have a purpose. The kludged up additional parts aren't going to be in the harness. So long as they're not hot you're probably going to be fine. Just tape them up and label things.  The FSM will really help with that.  The FSM will also help you figure the right wires for your lights.

 

As for the mechanical parts like your speedo, it's probably the cable. The jump when shifting could be your tranny, could be your clutch, could be the diff. We need more information on that.  Is there any noise?

 

Gas Tank,  The only way to be sure is to drain and drop the tank.  You should replace all the rubber lines while you're at it. That way you'll know you're not leaking from the back end.   While it's out you can have it boiled and recoated. Pressure testing should show any leaks.  The gas smell could also be the hatch seal especially if you're carbureted.  Depends on how strong the smell is.  Exhaust leaks can smell like gas in the winter too. 

 

Your car is running so it can't be as mucked up as Clocker seems to tout.  So take your time and get to know what you're looking at. Little projects add up to a fixed up car. so keep it up.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Pharaohabq

[markib85]

Pharaohabq, again thank you for your time.

 

The jumping effect in 1st and 2nd when cold makes a noise but couldn't really describe it. Maybe ill tryn record the sound and upload it. Its essentially the sound of a car stalling out and true descriptor would be the jolt. All in all im thinking its the tranny because shifting from first to second doesnt feel all that smooth under any condition. But it could very well also be my clutch needs more oil or its lines are leaking (assuming clutches have lines and fluid). As far as i know the car is all original, my roommate thinks there was a motorswap done to the 280 motor, the tail pipe is the 2.5" one which i was told was considered the upgrade back then, and the silver box under the seat which says "pacesetter" after some online research im thinking might be for a header upgrade done at some point.

 

-Being that the shocks were probably discharge im going to reconnect the battery and get to work on the car again. Just going down the list one by one (easiest to hardest). Goal is to make it a daily driver again, and eventually do a massive motor swap.

 

-As far as the FSM, i still have the original in the glove box and have tried making sense of some of it but the posts in the forums are faster and way more direct, they also provide work around solutions and similar experiences.

 

-My background is in computer eng so taking things apart and understanding how they work is fun for me so i dont mind the fixer upper and with the guidance in the forums ive been able to make sense of most of the mess so far. My bigger problem is im 6'5" 265lbs. so working under the dash or getting my hands into little spaces is damn near impossible. i can barely get my fingers into the radio deck slot .

[zack_280]

The FSM did not originally come with the car.  That would be the owner's manual.  The FSM is the Factory Service Manual.  It has much more detail on how the car works and how to troubleshoot and fix problems.  If you search, you should be able to find scans.  I thought I had a link in my favorites, but apparently I don't.

[markib85]

I guess someone along the line bought it cause i have both the FSM and owners manual. I also found digital as mentioned above my some other members. Link to download via Xenons30 . I do have the owners manual but no scanner at this time so if anyone does need let me know and i can always upload pictures via camera.

[9rider]

I live in Bishop and I discharged at least 3 or 4 times from my car to the building. First one , get in my car and got 1 . Then key in the ignition , got 1 some time. Turn off the car, got one and got out the  car, got one with the car handle. I could see the spark as long as 1/2 inch. So it is doesn't matter that you have 1 or 2  mins apart. As long as you build up the charge then goes the spark.

[9rider]

If you think your car electrical messed up then it would kill most relay and wires in your car before give you a spark even when you stand outside. 

[Pharaohabq]

Markib85,  No problem man.  Yeah Give it a shot.  I know what you mean, I'm 6'5" and it's tight, but that's one thing I love about the S30's all the headroom! 

 

If you think it's in the tranny, then do the easy parts first, Bleed the master and slave cylinders. Yes they're hydraulic. The slave is the pain to do since it's under the car. you can buy a Speed bleeder valve at the autoparts store and stick it in a hose and use that to bleed the brakes and clutch. it'll save you a lot of work getting in an out etc. If you do need a new tranny, DON'T rebuild the tranny, it's way cheaper to replace than to rebuild. There's tons of 5 speeds from 280ZX's around, and they bolt in.

 

Yeah, if you have a real and actual Factory Service Manual then hold onto that. There's not many paper ones left. the Electronic version is pretty good to use too. Now I'm not talking the Haynes manual though that's great too, the FSM has a lot more detail on the car.  So if you have both then you should be in great shape.  With your background, you might be really, I MEAN REALLY interested in converting your car to Megasquirt.  (I am a LAN admin so similar background)  Megasquirt is a DIY version of much more modern EFI for cars, MAP based, not AFM based.  You can buy all the new harnesses and stuff, but if you get it installed you'll find your car then runs awesome.  It runs nice on the stock system in good shape, but it was night and day when we put on MS.  So you might really want to look into it.  MPG didn't change that much, but responsiveness and the smoothness of running was amazing.  It also can be easily setup to handle a turbo. Look as the threads on Megasquirt on here for more info.  Another possibility though way more expensive is the Hesco EFI upgrade using 94 GM parts. I'm not saying buy Hesco, but you could buy the 94 Jeep harness, ecu etc from a junkyard and get modern EFI that way too. Megasquirt is cheaper tho.

 

Sounds like you're getting as handle on things.  Let us know if you have other questions, Oh Pictures are great! we'd love to see your car, not just the busted parts

[clocker]

 

Your car is running so it can't be as mucked up as Clocker seems to tout.  So take your time and get to know what you're looking at. Little projects add up to a fixed up car. so keep it up.

My perspective when I said his system was screwed up was this:

Given that his car is carbed and has minimal engine electrics, the bulk of his electrical system consists of charging (which apparently works fine), lighting (which has been jury rigged to work) and wipers (which don't work at all).

 

There are unknown switches and boxes wired into "a crazy mess" in the dash.

 

The Z's electrical system is so rudimentary that having many things non/partially functional qualifies as "pretty bad", I would think.

[Hey_Allen]

Regarding the gasoline smell, one thing I found caused it in my Z was the fuel filler vent hose.

Once I found the hose where it was routed into the rear of the hatch area, I found that it was BADLY dry rotted and cracked.

I replaced it (which was a bear, just fishing it through all the little nooks and openings) and fixed that issue, surprisingly easily.