mrbutcher Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Alright this has to be a beaten to death topic by now right? I've spent the better part of my free time all week googling around and looking for information on this. The 510 guys and the s30 guys all have a lot of good info on converting their respective suspensions but what about the poor s130? I was originally going to weld the stock spindle onto my s13 megan coilovers but lately I've been thinking I'd rather it be able to just bolt in. Unfortunately I'm not very experienced or smart and I can't find the answer to my question. Can I easily make the s13 wheel hub and rotor fit onto the s130 control arm and other stock parts? What doesn't line up? Am I better off just having the welding done? My true concern is safety. Also adapting some bigger calipers sounds like a good idea too. So I'd like to see if anyone has heard of doing this or knows of a write up on it that I wasn't able to find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-E Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 If you don't mind doing some investigative work ahead of time, I have a possible solution I will PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Here's my Megan racing coilover install on a 280ZX from waaay back: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/94002-how-to-install-s13-coilovers-on-280zx-and-poly-bushings/ I think the simplest and cheapest way is to do it as I've done it. Since my 280ZX is no longer, those coilovers are up for sale if you'd like a ready-to-go bolt in solution. I seem to recall another member using the S13 front spindles which would allow for any S13 big brake and 5 bolt conversion options. It's more involved as the control arm has to be modified to accept a different balljoint (I seem to recall a Maxima balljoint being used), and I can't recall how the TC rods were adapted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 m1ghtymaxXX, that's actually the same tutorial I was planning on following from the start! lol I am insterested in that member that succesfully used the s13 spindles but I'm not able to find any write up on it. I've just heard about it from other members. How long did you drive the car on your front suspension? This still seems like the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to get the front put together, like I said I'm just worried about the safety and reliability of it. I'm not putting the car on the track. It's just gotta be my daily driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) m1ghtymaxXX, that's actually the same tutorial I was planning on following from the start! lol I am insterested in that member that succesfully used the s13 spindles but I'm not able to find any write up on it. I've just heard about it from other members. How long did you drive the car on your front suspension? This still seems like the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to get the front put together, like I said I'm just worried about the safety and reliability of it. I'm not putting the car on the track. It's just gotta be my daily driver. I think I only drove on them for 2 years before I retired the car due rust. I wouldn't say there's any safety issue. I had the sleeves turned down to be a tight fit over the strut tubes and they were welded all around with rosette welds lover down on the tube. I actually encountered a worst case scenario racing the Targa Newfoundland rally in an AE86 Corolla which has an IDENTICAL front end setup to the S130, and this particular one even had Megan coilovers installed just like I did on the ZX. We came through a square left turn way too hot and understeered into a curb and up over someone's lawn (narrowly missing a porch full of spectators). In true rally fashion we slammed it into reverse and finished the stage (thankfully the last of the day) and drove through town to the evening service spot, oblivious anything was wrong until another driver pointed out one wheel had a fair bit more camber than the other. I looked under the car to find the weld holding the tube to the spindle had failed. Fortunately the nature of this setup allows for some redundancy in that the weight of the car is holding everything together (not to imply it's safe to drive with a poor or failed weld, but we were in just about the only situation where you would drive away from an incident like that without first inspecting the car). As soon as I unbolted the steering arm from the bottom of the strut the spindle literally fell out. The pieces were professional tigged at a fairly reputable shop, but it was clear there was zero penetration into the cast spindle. On it's own, there wasn't any evidence that it had even been welded. We found a shop that opened up late to let us use their big industrial Miller MIG. Not knowing how to set up the machine, I set it at full amperage and wire speed, heated up the spindle till it was glowing and welded it back together. It wasn't the prettiest, but it handled one of the more mechanically punishing stages the next day: Edited May 13, 2014 by m1ghtymaxXx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 With regards to using S13 uprights, here's the most informative thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/76341-s13-coilovers-s130-chassis/?&p=726579&hl=mack&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=726579 And another member did it, but little info and the ball joint looks sketchy: http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/76341-s13-coilovers-s130-chassis/?&p=726579&hl=mack&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=726579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismosilvia Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The easiest method by far has some how been completely over looked here on hybridz. All you need is a ground control or cheap universal coilover sleeves and springs and 2x 2 inch split collars. The factory lower spring perch is removed and the split collars act as the new perch to hold on the coilover sleeves. No welding, barley any cutting and the og strut housing us used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1ghtymaxXx Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The easiest method by far has some how been completely over looked here on hybridz. All you need is a ground control or cheap universal coilover sleeves and springs and 2x 2 inch split collars. The factory lower spring perch is removed and the split collars act as the new perch to hold on the coilover sleeves. No welding, barley any cutting and the og strut housing us used. The amount of cutting and welding remains essentially the same, one weld around the circumference of the struct housing and either cutting the spring perch off or cutting through the strut housing. I'm not sure what sort of ride height you can get out of the stock unmodified strut housing before running out of damper travel, obviously sectioning the strut is getting much more involved. Adapting a coilover like Megan or BC will allow for a large range of ride height adjustment as you can adjust the body length independent of the spring height (which preloads the damper). An added benefit is you get camber plates out of the box. The biggest benefit to welding on your own sleeves is the ability to run a higher quality damper and springs. To the OP; what are your goals for your suspension? Aesthetics? performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 Man I love you guys. Anyway. Yeah mostly aesthetics and some performance(as well as the general thirst for knowledge...I'm an engineer. Don't trust me yet). It's an enthusiastic daily driver for now that I plan on taking on rides with the local Z guys but later down the road of life I would like to put it on a track. after reading everything you guys are saying I think I'm really considering the s13 wheel hub conversion. Seems really practical and reversible so I don't have to worry about cutting and welding my sparkling new coilovers(and trusting my welder to do a good job). I looked into ground controls before but I don't really like that idea for the reasons m1ghtymaxXx mentioned. That and my original 32 year old struts/shocks were better meant for the sea. Also I'd like to add that I'm not a sponsor of duct tape and I never really trusted mickey mouse. He's so shifty. This topic was created with the point of collaborating information since I've had different people say "Well I saw this one thing this one guy did" and never be able to track down what they were talking about. That being said, thank you guys for all the information. It's truly a help and I'm glad I decided to ask before I settled on welding. Last questions for the s13 swap, those Maxima ball joints....anybody know what year to use? It must matter? I got that it's an early 90's. Also, does anybody know if anything else other than the control arms need to be extended? The OP of that one thread never answered this question but I assume he didn't based on those pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Just a little update for you guys. I took the plunge and bought the s13 hub/rotor/calipers. I then proceeded to try and fit an early 90's maxima ball joint into it. Yeah that didn't work out. The tapering is wrong, it doesn't fit snug. So I proceeded to take it home and try to fit my s130 ball joints instead. Well. They fit snug. Unfortunately the geometry is off and the mock up was pulling the ball joint as far as it could go. So I'm having my local machine shop buddy make me a custom adapter that should correct the angle issue. We'll see how it goes. Otherwise the only other notable difference is that the bolt on the steering arm ball joint is a bit short. I'll cross that bridge after I handle this adapter issue. I will be taking coherent easy to understand pictures and posting it all up after it's done and has had some road testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nismosilvia Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 82 and on maxima is a completely different suspension then the 280zx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Yes I think he gets that.... If you had read the entire thread you would realize what he is actually trying to do which is take a 240sx(s13) front hub and mate it to the 280zx(s130) suspension; so he can use the s13 coilovers easily. What he is saying is that the maxima balljoints he used didn't work like they did in this thread here http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/76341-s13-coilovers-s130-chassis/?&p=726579&hl=mack&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=726579 That being said, please read the entire post, before making yourself look ignorant. We all know the maxima suspension is different thank you, have a great day. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns please PM me and I will be happy to answer them in a timely manner as I see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 The tapering is wrong, it doesn't fit snug. So I proceeded to take it home and try to fit my s130 ball joints instead. Well. They fit snug. Unfortunately the geometry is off and the mock up was pulling the ball joint as far as it could go. Also butcher in this other thread here http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/76341-s13-coilovers-s130-chassis/?&p=726579&hl=mack&fromsearch=1&do=findComment&comment=726579 It says "with all the math, I figured I needed to put the ball joints out about 1.25" on each side to keep the stock S13 geometry. which is still kind of screwed up anyway because the control arms on the 280ZX are actually longer than S13, but at least the strut angle is right!" Anyways, I hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Thanks Josh280z. Yeah basically I'm making an adapter that will extend the balljoint out and angle it properly so that the s130 balljoints will fit properly. Pretty much the same thing that one guy did with the Maxima balljoints in the thread you linked. I'll see how it goes and post pics later this week when I get the adapters back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Good luck with this, please keep updating and let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Update time. I finally got my parts. Still need to paint them but I mocked it up today. Now. I had my machine shop correct the tapering size on the hubs to fit the original s130 ball joint from the steering arm. I'm concerned about the angle that this puts the ball joint at though. The arm is long enough but it -almost- maxes out the angle of the ball joint. What do you guys think? Will it hold up fine? Do I have to worry about snapping something? Check out the pics and let me know thoughts and concerns and of course solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbutcher Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 I found this thread. Check out post #33. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/42446-280zx-s13-frontm30-rear/page-2 Looks like he's got the same angle going there. Seems like it should be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh280z Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) If the angle is too much I wouldn't run it. You might the run the risk of breaking something.... Parts are expensive enough as is. My train of thought it is if you aren't comfortable with how it looks than do something else. I will eventually run a set of s13 coilovers on my car and I plan on doing it with using the Maxima ball joints as mentioned in a previous post. Another mod I would do is a complete s13 rearend subframe swap: diff and all. It would give you more control over adjusting. Also by running the s13 hubs you can run the brakes as well, something to keep in mind. EDIT: ^^^ subframe swap requires some beating with a hammer if I remember correctly. Edited July 5, 2014 by Josh280z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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