Guest 240hybrid Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I was told that you can get 220hp from a 2.4 with modified carbs(not sure how though) and a mild cam and very light cleaning of heads(might be able to get away with no head work on race gas)some headers and exhaust, with a bone stock lower end. Probable need race fuel though, I'm not totally sure, someone will know for sure. I was told this by a member or GA Z club. It should be streetable. I know a 2.8 can get little more than 220 hp with stock heads and stock lower end along with a mild cam , with a Cold air induction,Big Throat Throttle body(supposed to increase 9% hp or .5 sec reduction, if installed proper). I say properly due to widening of intake. Headers, and some good exhaust. I have this set up on a 2.8, then I decided to pull that though for a built 280zxt. N/A didnt do it for me. If you reprogrammed the ECU you can probalbely increase hp by around 10--15% along with the other mods. making a 250 Hp motor? that would make nice N/A motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted December 5, 2002 Share Posted December 5, 2002 I'm about 4HP away from 200HP on L28 with one sick rod bearing according to HP caculator. That's 164RWHP. I'm still running too much fuel, fan clutch, AC, and stock air box. I think there some place for improvement for couple more HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MistressMotorsports Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 The motor that came out of my L24 was a stock (Rebello) bottom end with flat tops, a ported N42 head with bigger valves, a little compression added, and a mild cam (good to about 6500) Stock SU carbs and a highly modified intake manifold. The biggest expense was welding up the intake so you could actuall see three intake runners when you looked into it instead of two. Approximately 210 hp and smooth as a pussycat on premium unleaded. The N42 head is being used on the new L30, but the Rebello bottom end and the intake/carbs are just hanging around. I'm thinking of putting one of my spare heads on this combo as either a backup motor or to sell. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I would be interested in seeing engine bay photos, and dyno sheets. Also would be intereseted to hear just how much a built NA L series would cost. I've seen quite a bit of NA guys saying they are making lots of power, but have rarely seen dyno sheets. Please enlighten me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 My daily driver (10:1 L28 w/ SU's) ran 14.8 @ 92mph which equates to ~ 180rwhp. That should be over 200 @ the flywheel. It is nothing special other than flat-tops shaved N42 and header. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 How much did you estimate your car weighing, my `73 with an auto tranny, fully equipped with half a tank of gas weighed in at 2350 pounds, put me in it and it weighs about 2520 or so. I'm no expert at this calculation deal so I just did a quick look up on yahoo for the calculators and put in your trap speed and weight at 2600 pounds and see estimated horse power at 158. I'm assuming this is to the wheels. Here are a couple sites I tried: http://tnmotorsports.com/dyno.htm http://www.torinocobra.com/horsepower.htm Oh by the way, my friend weighed his `73 with a manual tranny and it was quite a bit lighter, but he didn't have bumpers on it either. I think he was about 60-80 pounds less, don't remember exactly. It's not as easy as you'd like it to be to get 200+ hp out of these things. 14.8 1/4 isn't bad though. Correct me if I'm wrong in using those pages as calculators. On the other hand 200+ to the wheels with a small turbo, and efi system on the L6 is very streetable, and easy to obtain. Z-Gad is your block over bored .040in or is the head shaved some? If shaved to get 10:1 CR did you have to spacer up your cam towers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I want to build a high compression setup as well, but it does sound like a PITA to some extent, cam towers/timing chain issues. If you stay NA though to retain your low end driveability you'll need the compression to make up for bleed off with a higher overlap cam. Unless you go wild with the timing or compression (which you wont) you will not need race gas at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Is it possible to make 200hp out of a N/A 70's 2.4 or 2.8L Z while still keeping it daily reliabale and if so what motor would be better for it?? With what mods?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by 240hybrid:I was told that you can get 220hp from a 2.4 with modified carbs(not sure how though) and a mild cam and very light cleaning of heads(might be able to get away with no head work on race gas)some headers and exhaust, with a bone stock lower end. Probable need race fuel though, I'm not totally sure, someone will know for sure. I was told this by a member or GA Z club. It should be streetable. I know a 2.8 can get little more than 220 hp with stock heads and stock lower end along with a mild cam , with a Cold air induction,Big Throat Throttle body(supposed to increase 9% hp or .5 sec reduction, if installed proper). I say properly due to widening of intake. Headers, and some good exhaust. That'd be about right. Most of the numbers bantered about by GA-Z Club members are products of Sunbelt's engine dyno, so that's real SAE calibrated hp and not some inflated sales pitch. Always start with more cubic inches (L28) on the bottom end unless constrained by rules. With 9.5 compression, pump gas, mild cam, 1.5 diameter primary headers, 2.5 diameter exh with Dynomax or Borla muffler, modified EFI or carbs, 200hp is easy with a stock bottom end (say $1500 for the peripherals and minor machine work). 225 easy after an ITS type rebuild (1-2% leakdowns, balanced, blueprinted, spec valve job) with the same peripherals (add another $4000 for the machine work and new parts). 250 NA with all of the above, a Sunbelt cam and a $1000 day on the dyno. 300 NA with all of the above and a couple grand in headwork, or about $10k total. No problem. All it takes is money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 My bad... My 73 w/ me in it weighs closer to 2800 I believe. It has R200, T-5, full spare tire, and a bunch of junk including text books, flight bag, tools, etc all adding weight, That puts me at ~ 170 rwhp according to the calculators you supplied. Scottie GNZ and I figured out rwhp using et, mph, mph gained in the 2nd 1/4 mile and 60' (I believe) to figure close to 180 rwhp (this is from memory). Regarding my engine, The block is a standard bore, flat top pistons, and the head was shaved using an angle cut as opposed to a straight shave. The head was shaved at an angle toward the spark plug side giving the head roughly the same cc's as an E31 head. Also, I did not have to shim the towers as the exhaust side remained at nearly the stock height. I used a felpro gasket (1mm compressed) so the compression is actually closer to 10.5:1 if you want to get picky. I run a stock 240z cam and I have no problems running on 93 octane pump, in fact that is what I ran at the track as well. My 60' was also a 2.1, so the time easily could have been improved to a 14.5 if I had drag radials on the car. Agreed, It is much easier to get to where you want to be with a turbo though. 200hp is doo-able w/o an intercooler as well. I figure the stock set-up and ~8-9 lbs of boost and you are there!! No machine work, no special parts, just a little bleeder valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Mine trapped 91mph in 1/4mi. (my ET sux because lack of tune that night) 78 280z with everything on the car except spare tire and bumpers. around 2800lb with me (150-160lb) in it. It's not fast but I got what I claimed. I love to dyno but I got a span rod bearing so it's going to have to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by Tony Fruzza:I would be interested in seeing engine bay photos, and dyno sheets. Also would be intereseted to hear just how much a built NA L series would cost. I've seen quite a bit of NA guys saying they are making lots of power, but have rarely seen dyno sheets. Please enlighten me. 235 rear wheel hp dyno results here: http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2274&papass=&sort=1 The motor is an NA 3.1 liter built WAY back in '94. Early this year Sunbelt did some headwork and installed a cam that allows use of light springs. I put a set of used 45mm 3X2 OER Racing carbs on it a few months ago, and took it to the dyno the next day, and that's what I got! The motor isn't the best street motor, but it was before I cammed it to get better high-rpm power. I guess 235 rwhp should translate to 275 at the flywheel, but I've also heard that rear-wheel inertial dynos are a bit optimistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Oh yeah, total cost was ~$4500 for the motor and ancillaries. Go here: http://www.hybridz.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000867#000004 for a summary of costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony240ZT Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 That's pretty awesome. From the look of it on that dyno run you could have gotten a bit more mid range if it didn't run lean. Like someone else stated $4500 isn't all too bad for that kind of performance out of an NA L6, but is still quite a large investment per horse power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Baldwin Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 It's rich in the mid-range. Causes that big dip right around 4500. Dunno what to do 'bout that. I gained 5 lb-ft from 4500 up (still with the dip, though) since that dyno run by installing smaller air jets in the carbs to keep it from leaning out up top. Did that on a different dyno and pulled 228hp before and 233hp after the jet swappage. $16/hp isn't bad at all for a moron like myself (albeit with excellent technical advisors). Lot's of folks spend $100s for little to no hp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2274&papass=&sort=1 Nice to see some results, rich in the midrange causing power loss though, and lean up top a tad. I aimed for a generic 13.0:1 for my WOT AFR, although I'm sure its not as easy to achieve across the board on a carb car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norm[T12SDSUD] Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 I've got about $1200 wrapped up in the long block on my 2.9L N/A stroker motor since I did all the work myself it costs a little less. I figure I am making about 230 HP at the flywheel with my 12.88 @ 105.8 mph trap speed in the 1/4 mile. Later,norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opie Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Norm, love the way you prove that big numbers can be achieved with low dollars. I know you been doin it for a while too. Doug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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