Scottie-GNZ Posted January 11, 2001 Share Posted January 11, 2001 Chris, glad to see another turbo guy out there. There are a few of us. Why no consideration for turbos? I think it is a matter of unfamiliarity and a believe that there is some black magic involved with turbos. Dont start a war guys, there is supposed to be a little humor there . Kind of puzzling, actually, as I would not approach a S-charger differently from a turbo. The turbo has more plumbing, but if the S-charger was running more boost, it would have to have an I/C also. After all, it is the compression of the intake charge that generates most all the heat. I take a very simplistic approach to turbos. Make sure you have the components to eliminate heat, supply all the fuel needed, and make sure the engine can breathe. With that, turn up the boost to the beginning point of detonation then back off a notch. No black magic there, because I cannot imagine the approach to maximizing an S-charger any different. Of course, all the S-charger folks will tell me I am wrong ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 My next 240 Z will be an iron fist in a velvet glove compared too my current monster 73 Z. First she won't even look like a Z more like Terry oxdale's Z or a mini Viper. Speaking of a Viper will start with the 6 speed. Next a twin turbo Chevy v-6. Stock block w/ 4-bolt caps,bored .060 over Scat 3.750 stroker crank,lightweight rods{take your pick},JE pistons,aluminum heads{take your pick}and Electromtive TEC 2 injection/ingnition package. The motor shares many parts w/ the SBC is a lot lighter and just as reliable. It will also give me plenty of room for the intercooler, plumbing,radiator,etc. Besides I love how quiet turbo cars are A little tire scratch and Sssshhhh your gone!!! Light weight, easy start up, good gas mileage, adjustable boost and timing.Besides it would be brutal on the street,deadly at the strip, and untouchable on the road course. Like I said iron fist in a velvet glove!!! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 12, 2001 Share Posted January 12, 2001 Hey guys, I did not say I would consider a turbo later!!! What I am looking to do today the NA 302 is sufficient. If you notice I am building the bottom end to handle 500+hp, so there is some forethought here. I will also try to keep the compression to reasonable levels so I don't need to rebuild the top end when and if I go forced induction. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 What about a BMW 3.5L. A high-performance runs about 3K. It pulls like a V8 and would rev to 7k, no problem. I think from 85' up they had DOHC which would allow for better tuning. You could easily get a 5 speed out of a junker and it could handle the power. The one problem is the oil pan. Get's in the way of the front crossmember. A little reworking and it would be awesome. Just a thought, otherwise go with the 302. That's a great motor too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 Bmw's 6's didn't have DOHC from 85. I don't know what years they started the DOHC on the 3 series, but my guess is that it was 92. I know for sure that the E30's didn't have them. (except for the M3) ------------------ Drax240z 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! Drax's 72 240Z Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Roamer, I hope you go the 302 ford route, these things are cheap. Although hard to find, try to get a MEXICAN block, ask your ford guy, he can help with this, they have thicker main webs and nodular main caps and are rumered to have a higher nickel content in the block. You mentioned possibly turbo charging later, that will give you a hard time right now with compression issues. To get the desired HP AND throttle response you will need atleast 9.5:1 compression.Too much for forced induction IMO. It also hurts cam selection. If you go FI, you will need a short runner intake to get the RPM, A good combo would be: MEXICAN short block, ARP bolts, studs, etc... Edelbrock Victor Jr. heads, Edelbrock Victor 5.0 intake, SOLID roller cam, (choose a cam to go with copression ratio you choose)if you choose to go low compression, you can run a cam with little overlap to help build compression(call a cam manufacturer), 30lb/hr injectors, use street rod wiring harness from ford, and get a Superchips chip (they have one that only eliminates the rev limiter)no need to custom burn one(chip). Last get a Pro-M 77mm mass air meter to match the injectors.(it comes with an elbow and a K&N filter.) Big plus is, later if you find you self racing on shorter tracks you can stroke it to 347 cubes. (torque pulls the car out of curves.)I would go to a Tremec 3550 5spd. (did you guys know that Tremec bought Borg Warners Transmission department) good luck with you venture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Scottie, I'd say you're right on for either SC or Turbo application. For those running computer-less, I would be hesitant about finding that light detonation point under high boost, though. W/O a knock sensor, or some way of reading O2 you may never hear it before its too late. Start way rich and back down in small steps. Your techno set up is fantastic. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Thanks guys, I think I will be going for a 91+ 4.9 motor to get into fuel injection and allow me to push the edge of detonantion with computer control over the ignition. I am thinking about building the motor for NA first because it seems more appropriate for my purposes and desires. However I may still get the turbo bug later! My power desires keep going up . . . it now HAS to be over 300hp. I need to keep those punk kids in the new Subaru WRX's from adding and chip and exhaust and blowing my doors off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I think you will do fine with 300RWHP... Those WRXs won't come close to your power-to-weight ratio! Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 What is the chance this post will hit 100? Roamer, if you have decided on the 4.1L with the eventual goal of forced induction, you might want to consider the following. Unless startup funds are limited and you do not care about the final cost (final cost, thats hilarious), it might be better to start off searching for a Sy/Ty drivetrain that includes the electronics and I/C. Buying an N/A might be initially less expensive, but getting all the pieces later to forced induction is going to be killer. I firmly believe, and John Scott can chime in, that it will cost considerably less to start with a complete OEM forced induction setup. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 One thing about all-wheel drive cars is they don't need the power to weight ratios like the RWD cars . They have a huge launch advantage giving the impressive 0-60 times . That is if you drive it like you hate it . I think the fuel delivery issue is what stops most people from going turbo . You just can't slap on a rising rate FPR onto stock EFI and expect a turbo to run as good as the supercharger . A new fuel map must be done, it takes more R&D for a turbo . In the end it's worth it though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 On the other hand..... All wheel drive adds parasitic loses with all the extra mechanics. Or simply, the Soob kids may get you for a few feet (doubtful though) Roamer, but after that, they won't be seeing anything but the tail of your car, and severe tire smoke. Jeez, at this rate it might top 100... Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Let me help hit the 100 mark... AWD, yeah you have losses, but it's not only the Soob kids that have AWD. The Talon/Eclipse/(early-90s)Laser have an AWD option. Some are running in the low 9's (1/4 mile) DSM time slips - nothing to sneeze at! Anyway, I agree, start with a boosted configuration if you can - ask John Scott what it means when you stretch a NA bottom end with lots of boost! [This message has been edited by pparaska (edited January 26, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Jamie, you want to scrounge the classifieds of the popular forums, EVERYDAY, and be prepared to act fast when one pops up. I do not have the URLs for the various Sy/Ty forums but I am sure John Scott has a long list. If not, give me a day or so. Now, if you are considering V-6 turbo, let me tell you about this other little known V-6 turbo. It used to be available in a Buick (chuckle) and a special edition TransAm. Actually, it beats me why other folks are not looking at the Buick as an option. Must be the slushbox. IMO, for power potential and price/performance, it beats ANYTHING you can put in a Z, hands down. Bold statement , but it can back it up. If you are interested: http://www.turbobuick.com http://www.turbobuicks.com http://www.gnttype.org ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 This is exciting. I got page 4 and #75! ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Scottie - no doubt that's a great power mover (the GN motor). Has anybody come up with a way to put manual trans behind one? I know the auto is great for drag racing, but I (and others) prefer a stick on the street/road course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pauli Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 that's something i've wondered, too. don't the turbo buick engines use the same bolt patern as the 3800's in f-bodies? i thought they were basically the same engine... is there actually a block difference, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Purple240zt Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Roamer, you have an interesting quantity of choices. Good luck. I just wanted to explain why i went turbo. Some will think im stupid, crazy and ignorant im sure. First off, the V8 dosent tickle my elmo. I liked the idea of keeping it nissan, and love the rev happy 6 banger. I started with a built NA motor that was pretty powerful.... but in the quest for a car that really hauled ass i ended up building a motor that sucked royal on the street, it was a racer for sure. The off cam performance was horrible, but when cam hit it was like a shot of nitrous, seriously. Well one day, i was really hemming and hawing about my z. Honestly, i had run out of things to do and was growing bored with the car, and a little dissapointed with HP. I was online one night and got a wild hair and bought a complete "running" turbo motor. This was the key to my z, working on that car is a blast! Lesson learned though, never take anyones advice unless you can see it run. It turned out to be the equivalent of a junkyard motor. So i did a total rebuild, planning to use the stock ECU. Well i bailed on factory stuff, concerned that it was screwed up along with the motor. Eh, basically i should have started with a bare bones 300 dollar junkyard motor but i got a 500 dollar complete unit. There went 200 down the pooper. Anywho, motors still not done and im not too concerened. I learned a valuable lesson, i enjoy working on the car almost more than driving it. Man thats sick.... Anyone else in my boat? Evan So, after all my rambling let me say this. I gaurantee you will be happy with any of the aformentioned suggestions. But if turbos an option, do it right the first time. it will save you massive amounts of money!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 Sorry to hear you lost $200 Evan. You know, if its any concillation at all, you and a few others saved me thousands. I was trying to decide between the NA 6 and other options, and basically what it came down to was people telling me that for what I wanted out of the car, I should plan big from the start so I have a base to work with. Sounds advice. (thanks Evan among others!) I defiantely thing that if the buicks had a 5 spd option more people would be interested. I know I would! For me, the whole concept for my Z is a drivers car, and for ME that can't have an automatic. (others will vary!) My reasons for the Turbo are almost the same as Evans. The V8 was considered, and in the end I decided on something else for numorous reasons. I love inline 6's. That said, if I had been trying to get XX performance for the least amount of money, its hard to beat the GN/V8 swaps. 1 wrecked car and you can basically have everything. ------------------ Drax240z 1972 240z - L28TURBO transplant on the way! Drax's 72 240Z Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Dreamer Posted January 27, 2001 Share Posted January 27, 2001 I have access to a Chevy Twin Dual cam 60' V6 real cheap,if I want it. 215 HP stock and it will rev sky high! Admittedly it needs a rebuild, now if only I can figure a way to bolt a WCT5 to it? Any sugguestions? Mark ------------------ " Now where did I set my beer? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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