Guest Anonymous Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Hmmmm...no support for the Jag 4.0 V8, huh? Well, I have one suggestion: Put on a decent set of clothes and clean the junk out of your nailbeds....go down to the local Jag dealer and ask about a used 4-door sedan with the V8...during the test drive stomp on it....SEE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 I emailed Alan Johnson of CHRfab. He's a Northstar guru who has built some of the baddest Northstars to date, including a 700hp one destroked to 4.0L naturally aspirated. He said it was the factory coolant that causes the problems with the corroding aluminum blocks. Also, he said he could do the Timeserts but suggested headstuds for my application(due to future twin turbos). As I said above the waterpump and factory engine mounts are not an issue for my car. My engine has @200 miles on it max, the oil is still gold and it doesn't have any carbon in the exhaust ports. I'm not worried that my block will suffer from corrosion problems. Alan runs these motors to 9500rpm regularly with solid lifters and aftermarket cams. I plan on doing some head work along with cams and solid lifters and a custom intake. I should be able to make between 450-500hp before the turbos are added. When I do the turbos, I will lower the compression(stock is in the 10.5:1 range) with custom pistons and add forged steel crank and rods(the factory pieces are good to about 500hp). I am not afraid to try something different. Jamie Deathstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Sounds like good advice and a good plan. Check with Mr. Panoz and see if you can run your Z at the Petite Le Mans. I will work the pits for beer and a place in your will . J/K Hummm...maybe now that I brought it up there are actually good parts to be found for the Northstar in light of Caddy's efforts in their LMP? At least they would be race proven. Good luck, keep us posted on developments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Paragod; that was a very informative link. I've spent many years (13years & no longer working for MIC) with MIC, GM's side of insurance: protection plans & lot insurance for the dealers to be specific. I wish I could say I was surprised at those stories...but I'm not! There is so much "BULL" that goes on from upper management behind the closed doors that you wouldnt believe it! I told my boss when he asked if I'ld taken advantage of the "Employee Purchase Program" why I had purchased a Nissan P'Up & not a GM P'Up-he just shrugged & walked away. The reason is that I found out the asian Mfg's take lost funds on all "Recalls" out of the profits of their CEO's & Presidents pockets while the "American" Mfg's only want to sell the consumer a "Great Protection Plan". My question is, if its such a great car then why does it need "The Great Protection Plan" to begin with? Prior to purchasing my P'Up neither Toyota nor Nissan pushed a Protection Plan while the GM dealers wanted to push their fine plans prior to even purchasing the car. When I worked w/the GMPP Dept (General Motors Protection Plan) I got to see the "At Cost" numbers for the differing protection plans...even on the Non-GM cars. I always got a laugh when GM's Cadillac Customers would get charged $3000 (that is the "At Cost" amount-the Dealer would charge retail @ $5000 total) for their premium protection plans while the "At Cost" (I'm sure the dealers would charge the same $5000 retail cost)for their premium charges for the Lexus type luxury cars were @ $350 to $500....Hhmmm(?) somethings amiss here; I wonder what it could mean? Okay, I'm thru ranting now! These prices were the mid 90's prices...things may have changed by now (but I doubt it). During my "informative/eye-opening" tenure w/GMPP; we'ld receive a packet at the beginning of every week, about 30 pages on average, of GM bulletins, quiet recalls, of what to look out for...at the end of the year we'ld have reams of notebooks filled w/Bulletins from any/all makes of GM? I hardly think the upper GM Mgt really is looking out for the consumer! I rarely enjoyed meating the Big Wigs when they'ld make a special visit to our Dallas office/a few of them were good people/most of them were merely "Going thru the Motions". One other quick note for anyone purchasing protection plans upon the purchase of a new or used car. Dont just expect the dealer to process the protection plan & hope everything's fine if/when your car breaks down or your health requires the use of the insurance policy. I noticed a trend (very rare but still a trend) in that some dealers were [bad] about [forgetting] to process the protection plan....when the service dept called to turn in a claim "No Protection Plan in the System"....when I worked for the PDP dept (premises insurance) I found out that occasionally a dealer would get sued for Insurance Fraud: charge cust's for insurance & then intentionally not process the protection plan or insurance policy hoping the customer never needs it. This means the dealer gets to keep all the money from the "alleged" transaction & doesnt have to share any of it w/GM...or whomever the underwriter was: great for the Dealer but not so good for the Consumer as some insurance compainies go broke after so many years: a good insurance policy (even if the insurance company goes broke) will be absorbed by another insurance company-so the customer isnt left hanging: but if the dealer never filed the paperwork the consumer is "left holding the bag". So after purchasing the policy/protection plan....give it a few weeks & then call the claim center to confirm you are in their database: you may be glad you followed up on the dealer! Jamie...good luck to you on the Cad engine-its got a good design/just a lot of extra baggage to go along w/it! Kevin, (Yea,Still an Inliner) [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Kevin Shasteen ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Check THIS out. Note that the one American made engine he calls out that he WON'T offer an extended warranty on is the Cadillac Al engines. Very interesting. Jamie, I hope you've got this figured out. Galvanic action is not nice. If the engine was dry while it's been sitting or it had the good coolant in it, you should be in good shape. Maybe a brass hunk bolted in the lifter valley would be a good idea [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: pparaska ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Kevin, good story. I think it points out the current attitude in Corporate America: profits at all cost, CEO bonuses at all cost. I wish we could go back to a time when workmanship, quality and engineering prowess was more emphasized (not to mention the consumer). And PParraski (did I get that right good job and good point, how did you find that? I remember problems with a motorcycle engine once that was casued by poor metallurgy. Soft as butter castings. I wonder if that could be the problem in the Northstar? I KNOW that GM would not try to save a few bucks by using a cheaper than ideal aluminum alloy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 I remember reading somewhere about a radiator cap with a piece of zinc that was attached and hangs down into the radiator. The zinc piece was intended to be a "sacrificial anode" or something like that and would be corroded away instead of your aluminum parts exposed to coolant.... Would this help with the electrolysis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Most marine shops snear the coast should be able to sell you a bolt on sacrificial anode for less than $10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Excellent points guys, I will make an attachment to run clear water through the engine incase there is any coolant puddled in there. West Marine is a couple of miles from me so I may get that sacrficial anode you guys spoke of, it sound like cheap insurance. Before the Cad gets its turbos, I'm going to run it with a carb or aftermarket EFI to work all of the bugs out of the experimental stage. Thanks for the heads up on the engine, It got me thinking about things that I would have found out later when something broke or rotted off Jamie Deathstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted August 1, 2001 Share Posted August 1, 2001 Good plans Jamie. Zinc's are a routine replacement item on saltwater commercial fishing boats. Twice a year typically with one time being right before salmon fishing as they're VERY sensitive to the electron fields generated when the zincs are old or non-existent and will not reward you with a good catch. See what the marine shop says and place it somewhere easy to replace if possible. I know they're far from completely gone when they're typically replaced on marine boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I believe that this month's Car Craft may have a shot of a radiator cap with one of those anodes in it. I'll try to dig it up but I KNOW I've seen one in the last week pictured. It's manufacturer should be listed in one of the sidebars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Why, in their ultimate wiasom, didn't GM use the anodes when they found the electrolysis? Either this is a case of not 'thinking outside the box' or may indicate the anode is not a valid solution. Sounds to me like it should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I think the real problem here is quite different from a steel boat in the water. The ferrous (iron, steel, etc.) metals on a boat in the water is generally though of as the anode in a big battery. Not sure where the anode is. But anyway, the ferrous bolt in an aluminum block has set up this little battery right at the point were the two touch. So adding cathodic protection with a zinc anode probably won't do much to help this, unless the engine block is submerged . BTW, I probably mixed up cathode and anode above. If there are two things to choose from, I usually pic the wrong one . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I still think anti-seize (or anti-sneeze, or anti-sleaze if you prefer) would be protection enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Yep, me too. Lots of it. I'd actually pack the bottom of each stud hole and the stud and let the stuff ooz out. BTW, if anyone ever gets cute and uses stainless steel nuts and bolts on head/pipe flange bolts, be SURE to put anti-seize on the threads. After one hour of running, some of the bolts/nuts were quite galled. The SS fasteners had a brown tinge to them due to heat. One bolt/nut was galled so bad that I twisted the head off of the bolt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I'm not positive but I believe that anti-sieze is a conductor. I'm not sure that's what's wanted here - is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I mentioned this problem to my friend / fellow fire fighter who works at a Chevy dealership, he's an ASE master tech. He said to anti-sieze the hell outta the head bolts, AND, an engine with aluminum block and/or heads needs to be re-torqued after a few hours of run-in. I guess that precludes the use of TTY bolts, or maybe they can be re-torqued to spec, since it's not the same as taking them out and trying to re-use them?? He said the problem is, they assemble the engine, and it only gets run for a few minutes here and there, and the bolts are never touched. Might be wrong, but the logic seems OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 Jim, as far as I know you can get both conductive and non-conductive anti-sleaze. The conductive stuff is generally used on electrical connections to keep them from corroding. I believe it uses more copper/aluminum and graphite than the non-conductive stuff. Next time I am home I'll do a little resistance test between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Adkins Posted August 2, 2001 Share Posted August 2, 2001 I found a little more information on the sacrificial anode radiator cap. The anode is magnesium, not zinc (guess I was thinking about the boat anodes) here's a page with an article about it: Corvette magazine article It sounds good in theory, but maybe somebody with a chemistry background could check it out and tell us if this would really work? [ August 02, 2001: Message edited by: John Adkins ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 3, 2001 Share Posted August 3, 2001 I would just forget the Northstar if it wasn't purchased yet. It is a luxobarge motor. By the time all of the engineering problems are fixed you could have bought a dedicated performance engine. Now the difficult part: I do believe in 'buy USA' but not if it is a poor product to beguin with. That is why I disdain Harley (here come the hate letters now, H-D = sacred cow). Style over substance never impresses me. What happened to the engineering capability of the US? Pete, how many engineering majors graduating these days are US citizens? Why did GM build such a piece of crap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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