Guest Anonymous Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Have any of you heard positive results from propane injection on turbo motors? Have you heard of propane being used as the fuel in a nitrous setup? I wonder if the propane (-60 F) would add to the intercooling effect of nitrous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZROSSA Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Propane(lpg) has a higher octane rating, is cheeper(here) and is much cleaner burning so you get less polution. They use it a lot in aussie for taxis and mods on new cars that would not pass the polution inspections. Also it seems to be a way to get around having to lower the compression on high compression n/a engine if run with boost. I have also seen kits for diesel engines. I would like to know more about that. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 My friend has a shop and they put a kit on a Mitsu 3000GT VR4, along with some other upgrades. Not sure if they have squeezed it yet or not. I can check and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 YUP! Check the SupraForums WEB site. The big dog Supra guys are doing this for added octane. It both cools and acts as a fuel, I'm pretty sure they're filling Nitrous bottles to supply it. I don't know if it's been used as a replacement fuel with Nitrous or not but it HAS been used under big boost. Apparently it works well but many express reservations about having a flammable gas cylinder in the car! I'm also not sure if they're using a siphon tube to inject liquid and letting expandcool in the manifold of if they're injecting it as a gas. As a gas it owuld have FAR lower cooling effect having already boiled in the bottle.. Anyway, go lurk over there and maybe try to find the MKIV mailing list archives for postings about it. Some guys swear by watermethanol injection instead and seem to think it's got advantages over propane. The debate rages on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 There are plenty of people running around here in the Phoenix AZ area with trucks converted to LPG. I'm pretty sure the tanks have to be DOT approved to be professionally installed in fact I can't imagine some shop installing them otherwise just for the potential liablity they could face. Alot of the dealers were installing them a couple years ago here due to our wonderful alternative fuels scandal. The deal was, you got a rebate from the state for something like $15,000 if you had your vehicle converted to a clean fuel like LPG. Not a bad idea but alot of people figured out they could get a big fat brand new SUV and only have to pay about 18 grand for it and by the time the state figured out they shot themselves in the foot they paid out way more than they should have in rebates. It's even better because most of the trucks/SUVs that took advantage of the program can still run normal gasoline and interestingly enough that's what you see them filling up with most of the time anyway. Needless to say a couple politicians that this legislation belonged to didn't get reelected. I'm debating the propane conversion though as it's 110 octane which would allow you to run some pretty damn high boost. Propane doesn't produce as much energy compared to the same amount of gasoline but the higher boost combined with the cooling effect it has from the liquid evaporating should be more than enough to offset the difference. You'd also get to use the carpool lane whenever you feel like it and never have to screw around with emissions testing again. (Well it works like that here anyway) Oh yeah, it's better for the environment too for the huge impact 1 car makes. (Always the primary concern of most of us automotive enthusiasts without a doubt ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Propane has a lot of advantages, especially in a high boost engine. Like any other gaseous fuel it will not detonate under any compression level, so you could run insane amounts of boost. You would blow out your head gaskets before you pre-ignited. The BIIIIG downside to propane is that, although it's cheaper in many areas per gallon (but it's not in my area) there are about half as many BTU's in propane as there are in gasoline, so it takes twice as much to do the job. Now, I know economy isn't on your minds much were it comes to high performance Z's, but in cars that means having to use a BIG tank to give a decent cruising range, and it also means that a dollar's worth of propane will only take you as far as 90 cents worth of gasoline. Shorter range, higher cost per mile, small number of fueling stations, etc. will make it tough to justify propane conversion to most folks, even with a $15,000 rebate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 theres a few shops that sells kits for cars.. mostly VR4's and Stealth RT/TT's. a few supra guys have been doing it it. propane is like race gas but alot cheaper and it reduces knock. they dont use nitrious bottles to hold it, they have other bottles that are abit small that they use. when i was big into 3000gt VR4's and other cars i can never afford I was looking to get a propane kit. they sell for around 300 bucks. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I just spoke today to a guy I know locally running it in a Supra. Tuned it at the track this past Wednesday on a T-78. The kit is somewhat crude without a programmable EMS but it DOES work. His tank looks like a small BBQ tank. Not sure that's DOT but.... He's fiddling with water injection too He likes the Propane better so far but IMO with better control he'd like the water injection too. The water injection apparently has really steam cleaned his intake tract! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drewz Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Propane is a very cold liquid since it only becomes a liquid when it reaches under -100degrees but it burns hotter so a lot of vehicles that I converted to LPG a while back also have 1 stage cooler plugs installed to boot. Also if an older motor is being converted the heads have to run hardened seats or the cast seats dont last and burn up. As soon as the buildup on my 4x4 is done it is going LPG Just my $0.02 here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Exactly the point RPMS using Propane day to day is a nuisance so the kits that are multifuel don't see much propane running through them (i.e. never). They did however get the rebate. Some people are upset about it, I'm just ticked I didn't take advantage of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAW Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 I'm toying with an idea to run propane into the air injection passage/ports in my Starion ESI-R. There are small jet valves in the head operated by rocker arms which are designed to introduce auxillary air to lean and promote combustion swirl (and they notoriously cause cyl head cracking). Mine are not operational at present but I'm wondering if they could be used to introduce propane supplement at boost by direct injection? I know I'm not at a DSM site but there seems to be a good brain trust here. DAW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 My pal says every one he has talked to about the propane injection raves about it, but he hasn't squeezed it yet since the VR4 has a broken output shaft. Things like that are what make me appreciate the fact I am a datsun fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 i run propane injection on my 2001 VW Jetta TDI (diesel) ... others that are running propane are on www.tdiclub.com which is only for VW Diesel's if your interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 They had a thing on Horsepower TV where they propane injected a Diesel Dodge Ram. Made some damn good power with it too. Just like nitrous, but propane is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Originally posted by moridin2004:They had a thing on Horsepower TV where they propane injected a Diesel Dodge Ram. Made some damn good power with it too. Just like nitrous, but propane is cheap. It's just like nitrous except for the fact propane does not add oxygen. The cooling effects may be similar, but propane is a high octane fuel, where nitrous is a buffered oxidizer - quite different in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 another advantage to propane is low carbon content means cleaner engine internals. I've done a number of propane and natural gas conversions to industrial applications when working at my family's business as a youngster. Most of the natural gas apps were 350 chevys turning compressors and pumps. propane apps were forklifts and zambonis. our zam is based on a 1942 jeep, and has run propane for most if not all of it's life. a teardown about 2 years ago showed internal parts as clean as the day they were installed. by the way, with propane you should run ashless oil, one of the major brands is ashless. I think it was one of the valvoline or havoline or some other -----oline. I have seriously considered converting for the performance and emission testing benefits, but a few things come up. one is DOT tanks can be quite expensive unless you have a propane car in a wrecking yard near you, two is filling station availability, three is parts availability, four is you need to maintain these systems carefully, a fuel leak under the hood can end up blowing the hood off the car or worse. all of these can be overcome easily, especially in a performance application. another thought is propane tanks are not too much heavier than a gasoline tank, but CNG tanks are very heavy unless you can afford the spiral wrap carbon stuff. Perry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 I apologize. I didn't want to make it seem that it worked just like nitrous. I recognize that propane is not an oxidizer. I just wanted to say that the power added with the propane was significant as it is with nitrous applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 It sucks to think that someday soon gasoline will be either so-expensive or non-existent. Wouldn't muscle cars drop in price dramatically? I stand a very good chance of inheriting 2 V8 muscle cars from both fathers and I couldnt bare the though of BOTH of them becoming relics because I have nothing to fuel them with (the way they were supposed to be) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Had a propane vehicle in the family for quite some time. It usually gets a bad wrap from fear of unknown. It is a pressurized liquid in tank form. Yes it must be inspected and installed with all proper fittings. It also must be certifed every couple of years. It is really no more dangerous than a leaky gas tank on a car, if the tank is being heated from a fire it turns into a little bomb yes. The heating value is a bit different yes, but it runs at a bit different a/f ratio. In the end on a well setup mixer/regulator you will drop only a couple mpg. It is cheaper and cleaner on the engine. Higher octane and lower inlet temps because when it flashes to a gas it pulls heat out from the air. I think the main hurdle using it in a High performance car is getting precise fuel metering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Hmmm, you guys seem to be talking about using propane INSTEAD of gas. I've read some about fogging the intake with propane but still using gas/diesel. I have a 7.3 diesel F350 that I am considering doing that to as they say that it gives 100 hp and even more torque than that. Seems like it might be more tricky with turbos but why couldn't it be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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