seattlejester Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Regarding axle length: Strangely enough what I have is what I measured as I did it in that order on a sheet of paper. That was a bit confusing on my end as well. I have read and seen differentials (R200 grows towards the driver side with mounting holes being the same) which would point to the driver side axle being shorter, but my measurements showed that they were pretty close if not the passenger side being actually shorter, I think I'm going to roll it up on ramps to get a better grasp though as I agree my numbers go against what all the reports say, and this was with a tape measure in the dark. Regarding angled arms: So that is also something that is strange, I definitely have a rearward rake the half shafts definitely lean back. When I did the swap I pulled the mustache bar from a 280z, compared to the R180 mustache bar it has a bit of a kink in it to move the differential back. My front bottom diff mount lines up with the bolt holes so I believe it is in the right place, but I know my RT top front diff mount I had to add a tab to bolt the bushing to, to make it fit, I recall asking the maker about it and he said that some early cars had the diff mount really pulled forward, but that his mount encompassed the others so I was just kind of left out of that equation. I've always believed that it was a latent problem with the early cars that was eventually fixed with the later cars (11/70 build date if I recall), although memory is fuzzy as to whether it was a 2+2 or a non 2+2 that I pulled the mustache bar from. As it looked, I even considered putting in the R180 mustache bar backwards as that would give more room then an R200 bar correctly installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Found some good pictures of the angled back 240Z R180 half-shafts, and the perpendicular 280Z R200 shafts. A backward 280Z mustache bar would push the R200 forward. http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/R200.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 ......oh shoot. I mean that is the page I referenced, but the top photo. Is the R200 supposed to install with the curve forward but the mustache bar backwards? This might be a very expensive mistake, new drive shaft at the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Fudge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm pretty sure I'm going to find I installed it backwards. That means my total axle measurement is moot at this point. I do know that the 280zx turbo axle seems to have about the same range so I'm still comfortable with the driver side. Passenger side on the other hand will need to be measured with the diff installed correctly or based off the numbers from John's article. I have plunge joints so quite a bit of variability so as long as I hit the middle of the range I should be fine. Based off the math I get for the passenger side I need... 16 1/8 inch for half shaft x 25.4mm / inch= 409.575 mm 19.4 mm for the input 36 mm for the stub axle flange 56mm for the 280zx adapter 59mm for the infiniti input That brings me to 409.575 + 19 + 36 = 464.975 mm 464.975mm - 56 mm - 59mm = 349.975 mm 349.975 / 25.4 mm / inch = 13.7785 inches or ~13.8 inches. So I have to find the width of the sliding tripod bearings and how much space they occupy in the housings and find out the midpoint to calculate my axle length. Once that is done I can send off the measurements with the WD21 axle, best case scenario, they trim down the axle, respline it and I go on my happy way for about 70$. Worst case they have to build me a new axle with custom splines to my measurement, but that should be good for quite a bit of hp and I would think it would be cheaper then the price listed of 300$ as it is only going to be 1/3rd the size of their typical axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 So finally got a chance to get my baseline. The WD21 axle shaft is ~13 1/8 inch. The diameter on the CV side after the splines is 26.8mm. The splined portion CV side sitting at 28mm. About 4 or 5 splines broke off with the spring clip when I popped the CV side of the axle off giving me the height of the spline on one side 27mm. That means the splines are about a mm deep and that the shaft is actually 26mm under the splines. That means I only have 0.8mm of material to spline instead of 2mm if I go past the original splined portion. I decided I needed to know how much of the axle will be shortened so I added the flanges and took some measurements. With the tripod gears on and the housings on, the measurement ends up at ~13 1/2 inch. Actually a little less without the spring in the 280zx turbo axle, but with the spring about 13 1/2 inch. So that means....I have at least 1/4 of an inch to play with without any modifications what so ever. Very tempting. I have about 1.5 inches of plunge on each side, so that means I have about 3 inch wiggle room. If I planted it smack in the middle so my range would be 12.3-15.3 inches, I would have to shorten the axle about 1 1/4 inch. There is roughly 1.15 inch of spline, so shortening it by the full 1 1/4 would mean having to cut the 1/2 height spline into the axle and removing all of the existing spline. If I instead cut it down by about half an inch, I would still retain half of the full spline height, get rid of my damaged ring splines, and give my self additional 1/2 inch of breathing room giving me a total of an axle that can go from 13-16 inches. So some options open to me here. 1. Go with how it is now, A c-clip will fit in the remaining splines where the spring clip was and live with the 1/4 inch of room, if I get crazy concerned I can space the axles out with adjustable control arms a couple threads. 2. Order a new WD21 axle for 40$ and have an axle shop remove the CV and keep the same as above. That means no missing splines, but this shouldn't be a concern because I am not worried about extension, I am more worried about compression. 3. Contact the axle shortening place and see if the 1/2 height splining is a feasible option. If it is not a problem just go with that and shorten the axle the full 1 1/4 inch and have them re-spline and add new stops. 4. Contact the axle shortening place and see if the 1/2 spline is a feasible option. If it is not a problem have them shorten it 1/2 an inch and have them re-spline 1/2 and inch and add new stops. 5. Go with a custom axle. I have all the other pieces so they can custom make an axle for less then 300$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Option 3 and 4 are out of the question, the company said that it would be too thin to have a usable spline machined onto it. That means I am more or less relegated to using the axle as is or getting a full custom axle, about 330 or so just for the one. JohnC's bench racing article states that at a six inch ride height the axles have a 7.5* angle and is 1/8th from bottoming out. I am curious if that is the shortest they will ever be or if they can get even shorter. I don't quite recall if at that ride height the arms are pointed up or down. However it is a point. JohnC's article also said at this height the passenger axle is 7/8 from bottoming out. While it is piss poor to make this assumption, given that my setup will make it very difficult to measure, I am going to say that the passenger side will have a minimum distance of the driver side + 6/8 of an inch. I found an old thread and asked a forum member if he recalled the values of having run the axle thorough the suspension travel without the spring and replied with a measurement that it is about a 1/4 to 3/8 from bottoming out when just running through the travel on the driver side without the spring with an R200 differential. Thus the lowest measurement for the minimum passenger axle length is found via... 12 3/16 + (1/8) + (1.442 * 2) + (6/8) = 16.009 The highest measurement for the minimum passenger axle length is... 12 3/16 + (3/8) + (1.442 * 2) + (6/8) = 16.1965 The math in the above post was done with 16 1/8 inch axles which is 16.125 inches. Redoing the math with the shortest possible minimum length and the longest possible minimum length brings us to a minimum range of the axle in total having to be from 13.66 inches - 13.84 inches. I will have to reassemble the axle and get a real accurate measurement, but that should mean that the axle I have as is would have a very tight but very real margin from bottoming out. I can also lengthen the arms a bit to make additional room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Something interesting I stumbled across http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~jthagard/vlsd.htm Reposted below as I have found more and more posts disappearing off the internet. "Let me impart some of my wisdom onto you. Have you ever heard someone tell you, "It can't be done" or "It will not work?" To me, that is music to my ears. Too often that means the other guy was just too lazy or too stupid to achieve the desired end results. Don't always accept things for face value. With that in mind, I began my journey of doing something "that can't be done." Granted, modifying cv halfshafts is not rocket science, but I was told that special shafts would have to be made and I have found a way to use OEM pieces to make this conversion work. We just won't consider the spacer that has to be machined as non-OEM stuff. WHOOPS! Anyway, we know that with the VLSD we are forced to use the input shafts that slide into the diff because they are special to the VLSD. We also know that the VLSD shafts are way too long to use in the 240Z. Here was my philosophy in doing this conversion. I needed to use the VLSD input shafts for the diff side and I wanted to use the 280zxT companion flange and outer CV on the stub axle side. The 280zxT companion flange can be used with the 240Z stub axle and allows for the outer CV from the 280zxT to bolt to it. Now, here is where the secret comes in! I needed to find a shaft that used the race/cage design on the diff side and was compatible with the input shaft and that had the tripod design on the stub axle side and was compatible with the 280zxT outer CV. What was the magical shaft, 84-89 AMC Eagle 6 cylinder front CV. I will need to get the specific part #'s so that you can do this swap if you want. Let me just put down some info off the top of my head for now until I get the part #s with some explanatory pics. On the diff side, you will use the input shaft and the cage from the VLSD, I believe it is a #175 'cage.' You will use the #174 'race' that comes on the 84-89 AMC Eagle 6 cylinder CV. Don't worry, they are compatible. The #174 and #175 'race' only differ in the ID and # of splines. On the stub axle side, you will want to use the tripod from the 84-89 AMC Eagle 6 cylinder front CV and the case from the 280zx turbo. The same is true for this side, even though they have different part #'s they are compatible. Do not try to use the 4 cylinder CV stuff, it will not work. I will try to update with part #'s and a better explanation soon. This should be a good start for now. Here is the specific information to do the VLSD swap ***Input shaft(diff)- must use from VLSD ***Cage(diff side)- #175 cage(from VLSD) ***Race(diff side)- #174 race (from 80-87 AMC Eagle 4WD 4cyl) ***Shaft- OEM Replacement Axle # 87-7699-0 (from 80-87 AMC Eagle 4WD 4cyl) (from 80-83 AMC Eagle 4WD 6cyl) ***Complete Tripod(wheel side)- # 87-7801-0 (from 80-87 AMC Eagle 4WD 4cyl) ***Tripod Housing(wheel side)- 280zxt So, using the AMC shaft the #174 race is placed on the shaft for the diff side and is compatible with the #175 cage. The complete tripod from the 80-87 AMC Eagle 4WD 4cyl fits onto the shaft and is also compatible with the 280zxt tripod housing. Whala....you have the shaft that works. The shaft is 13" long. As I said before you will want to use the 240z stub axle with the 280zxt companion flange and the passenger side will require a .5" spacer. Good Luck." I have more or less already gone my route, but for others it may be a viable option. Edit: Apparently already on here. http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/16316-vlsd-flange-pics-for-refernce/ Edited January 11, 2016 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 I keep referencing this thread, and I'm still not 100% sure. So to summarize. Items ordered Description: 1995 Nissan Pathfinder - CV Joint FEBEST # 0211-WD21 OEM # 39741-05U85Description: Febest - Nissan Inner Joint Left 27X98 - Oem: 39711-64E10 (G35) CV Axle Assembly Rear-Left/Right Heri 93885 fits 81-83 Nissan 280ZX New OE Quality CV Axle Shaft Fits Nissan Infiniti Driver/Passenger Front 80-4706 Driver side. 280Z 27 spline stub axle 280ZX Turbo 3x2 in 96mm center bore pattern companion flange adapter Heri brand 280ZX Turbo complete axle, with lock ring grove ground down to accommodate infiniti J30 lock ring Passenger side. 280Z 27 spline stub axle 280ZX Turbo 3x2 in 96mm center bore pattern companion flange adapter 280ZX Turbo 3x2 in 96mm Tripod housing WD21 tripod bearing? WD21 front passenger axle Bearing from Description: Febest - Nissan Inner Joint Left 27X98 - Oem: 39711-64E10 (G35) ? Tripod housing from ______ J30 passenger VLSD input Just for my checklist, that should leave me with a 280zx turbo axle with input, but not tripod maybe tripod bearing? WD21 input 2x pathfinder tripod housings G35 or pathfinder bearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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