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Motor Build vent hole question


98blackbell

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So if you have followed my son's build blog on here you know we hurt the motor last year. He is tooquick260 on here.

 

We had the motor rebuilt, installed, plumbed and wired the motor. Fired it last weekend. Lucky fired right up once we got oil pressure. Of course with oil pressure the oil cooler lines decided to leak and we had an exhaust leak. So working on that. I live 300 miles away and will be back next weekend to finish everything.

 

Question? Do I need the engine breather pipe?

 

The builder of the motor removed the engine vent pipe, installed a freeze plug.

 

I know building my air cooled vw motors I ran breather box that had the motor vented to the valve covers. Used the Clyde Berg designed one that was an oil filler that had baffles.

 

So do I need to remove freeze plug , reinstall pipe and vent it?

 

L28 motor, P90 head , Schneider cam, 8.2 to 1 compression, 280zx turbo, MS3PRO megasquirt,500cc injectors, 6 speed S-15 tranny, Z32 rear diff and brakes.

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I'm not sure I'd be happy with a builder that sealed up the breather hole with a frost plug. No doubt your research has uncovered that the breather performs a critical function and must at the very least be left open to atmosphere though should be properly vented through a PCV valve to the intact.

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It would be interesting to hear the builder's rationale.  Confused maybe?  Or maybe he knows something.  Who is it?

 

 

Are we calling them "frost" plugs now?  How about "pretty darn cold" plugs?  Or "time for a jacket" plugs.  "Hope my block didn't crack" plugs.  No offense, just amused.

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It would be interesting to hear the builder's rationale.  Confused maybe?  Or maybe he knows something.  Who is it?

 

 

Are we calling them "frost" plugs now?  How about "pretty darn cold" plugs?  Or "time for a jacket" plugs.  "Hope my block didn't crack" plugs.  No offense, just

 

The guy that did the work has done a lot of L series build. I will talk to him on Monday. Machine shop in Orlando. Family business in Orlando. Dover Cylinder Head.

 

I have a fast breather tank that I can plumb in. I could run the valve cover vent and the crank vent to it. I also have an additional bung welded to the oil pan. I could drain any over flow back there.

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Might I suggest the proper engineering term: "CORE PLUG"?

Or how about a regionalisation term: "Welch Plug"?

 

"Freeze Plug" is a shadetree term wrought from someone observing when their block was filled with water, they popped out (sometimes) and since the block wasn't damaged well, boy howdy, "them engineers are mighty clever, put in 'freeze plugs' to save the block if it freezed!"

 

Uh, no, they're there to hold casting cores on jacketed castings. Before anybody argues the point, if they are truly 'freeze plugs' please explain why they are in the intake manifold of the EFI Z at the end? At the Balance Tube on the SU Cars at each end? Do we plan to somehow run Liquid Air in the Intake and Risk Freezing and therefore need pressure relief???

 

Now, to the idea of PCV: vacuum in the crankcase promotes ring sealing and cuts down on nuisance oil leaks, removes combustion byproducts lengthening the life of the oil by preventing acidification, and generally does good things all around. If you run a vac-u-pan off a plugged breather, and suck hard on the valve cover, you CAN get a nice vacuum in the crankcase at WOT Conditions and help with performance. That MAY be why he plugged it. If you think just venting the valve cover to a filter, or even a breather box is sufficient...I'd say no. I'd install some sort of vacuum device, even if it was a restrictive orifice with a check valve in the manifold to draw out the blowby in the crankcase, and try your best to run negative pressure in there if at all possible.

 

I run the Berg Breather on my 62 Microbus. If you read Gene's Technical Article on why that breather is necessary for a Big Bore VW, it's right spot on for a High Performance L-Series as well. Good sound engineering principles don't change.

Edited by Tony D
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Thanks for the corrections on the "core plug".

 

I have read and still have the Berg Technical Articles. I was fortunate enough to meet and have multiple conversations with Gene Berg. Not that I can say I know him personally.

 

I ordered my first berg engine kit in 1989. I wanted a street motor with performance and gas mileage. I decided on a 2110cc combo Engle 120 cam, 42 dcnf carbs going in a heavy 1973 Std Beetle.

 

 

BERGs were out of 82mm cranks. Next shipment coming from Europe and the Swedish foundaries was 6 months to a year.

 

Changed to a 2165cc, Gene said no. He would not sell me that combo because it would not last 100k miles. Over heating , rod angles etc. I had 3 more phone conversations with Gene. He finally agreed to sell to me. With much disfavored comments.

 

Well I drove that car for 4 years and 65,000 miles without an issue. Raced at many of the VW races in the east and had the pleasure of Gene Berg watching me run in ST Pete Florida in the mid 90's. Ran a best of 8.14 in the 1/8th mile on that combo. Gene shaking his head.

 

Love the Berg Breather. Clyde made a set of heads that ended up putting me at 7.54 in the 1/8 mile. 12.20 in the 1/4 mile.

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Thanks for the corrections on the "core plug".

I have read and still have the Berg Technical Articles. I was fortunate enough to meet and have multiple conversations with Gene Berg. Not that I can say I know him personally.

I ordered my first berg engine kit in 1989. I wanted a street motor with performance and gas mileage. I decided on a 2110cc combo Engle 120 cam, 42 dcnf carbs going in a heavy 1973 Std Beetle.

BERGs were out of 82mm cranks. Next shipment coming from Europe and the Swedish foundaries was 6 months to a year.

Changed to a 2165cc, Gene said no. He would not sell me that combo because it would not last 100k miles. Over heating , rod angles etc. I had 3 more phone conversations with Gene. He finally agreed to sell to me. With much disfavored comments.

Well I drove that car for 4 years and 65,000 miles without an issue. Raced at many of the VW races in the east and had the pleasure of Gene Berg watching me run in ST Pete Florida in the mid 90's. Ran a best of 8.14 in the 1/8th mile on that combo. Gene shaking his head.

Love the Berg Breather. Clyde made a set of heads that ended up putting me at 7.54 in the 1/8 mile. 12.20 in the 1/4 mile.

Yep, that sounds like Gene! I moved to SoCal in August of 89, and was a regular there buying parts piecemeal for years! Never was a call-in, always a counter sale. I'd come in asking a question, and if Tim couldn't answer it, Gene always could. It was always "you're the guy up in LaHabra, right?"

 

I really respected Gene's stand on customer support and refusing to do phone support unless you had an invoice number. Saving his knowledge for HIS customers.

 

In fact, his insistence on reading his tech articles FIRST before calling predates the internet Forum Warning "SEARCH AND READ THE FAQ's BEFORE POSTING!" Gene only had so much time, and didn't want to waste it. The more time you wasted because you didn't read the articles, was time stolen from someone who did! I really respected that. And it's one of the reasons Berg's little Sgop is still around while countless other rip off artists surrounding his Mecca have come and gone!

 

I kinda figured if you had a Berg-Built, you read the articles! It's 100% applicable in this instance.

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I wish I had gone by the shop back when he was alive.

 

I was out there on business a few times from 88 to 95.

 

Yeah I used to know my ticket number.

 

First purchase was a oil sump then 42dcnf weber carbs and air cleaners, then dual quiet pack mufflers.

 

Then the whole motor kit.

 

I went through 3 5 speed conversion kits for a 73 bug, 58 rag and a square back.

 

If I wasn't planning on sailing away, I would have a yard full again of z's, and beetles.

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"Yeah I used to know my ticket number."

 

HAHAHAHA! Spoken like a true Berg Acolyte! I used to use my rocker shaft and rocker arms invoice number for everything until one day when Gene said "I see you in here all the time, and that's  the same number you used last time."

 

After that, I made up a little laminated card to show him the numbers and the items bought.

I showed it to him once. After that...it must have made an impression on him because after that it was 'You're the guy in LaHabra, right?'

 

I didn't plan on sailing away, and now living offshore with punitive vehicular importation tarriffs.... I kinda am stuck  with a yard full of Z's Kombis, and the odd Corvair, Opel, and assorted Meccanica....

Edited by Tony D
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