Haltech and RB CAS

[cheftrd]

Wondering if there are any members here running Haltech and an RBXX CAS for signal, and if so, what are your trigger settings?

 

ECU is PS2000.

 

Having a problem with "rpm drop-out's" where the ECU "thinks" the rpm has fallen, but hasn't... Starts and idles clean (296° cam), but the drop-out's, as viewed in the data-log picture, are playing havoc with ignition timing, target lambda, etc. 

 

Battery voltage to the CAS is good, no voltage drop present on the CAS ground, and the 6X/360X CAS signal is clean when scoped at the ECU.

 

For giggles, tried another CAS, and another new PS2000 ECU, with the same outcome.

 

Ignition timing is dead on, using the 12 tooth window for Home, the Tooth Offset has no affect (so it's zero), and the trigger angle is 100°. The ECU gets engine RPM from the 6X trigger signal (per Haltech).

 

I can't count the number of Nissan's I've tuned using the optical CAS, and this is the first time I've had a problem like this. Although the Home window is selectable, all of the RB's use the 24 tooth window by default, and the PRO systems for the GT-R's it's not even selectable. This is the first engine I've used the optical CAS on, that didn't come with it. This has me wondering if the ECU doesn't like anything but the 24 window for Home? That's all I have left to check, but it requires pulling the pump to change the shaft location. 

 

With the above taken into account, it "feels" like a sensor/ECU compatibility issue. No problem with the CAS. No problem with the ECU. No problem with the actual signal. ECU just doesn't like the signal...but it works fine if on the engine it came with. Some ECU manufacturers have trouble with the optical CAS resolution, so they have aftermarket disks; Haltech isn't one of them.

 

So before sticking a 60-2 wheel on the crank, and a modified distributor for the Home signal, I thought I'd run it by the biggest L forum in the world

 

Got another one in the wings, with the same set up , waiting to be finished, so I have to get this worked out...

 

 

Thanks for any input.

[winstonusmc]

 how is the play in the shaft? Does the Haltec have an internal pullup? Maybe the play is too much causing errors.

 

I have been following the build on Facebook for a while and admire this build.

Edited September 18, 2016 by winstonusmc

[Chickenman]

The following article seems to indicate a " jitter " problem caused by  worn timing belts. That could be the variable in this particular engine.

 

http://forums.haltech.com/viewtopic.php?t=8436

 

Solution seems to be to go with a Crank trigger wheel or a 24 + 1 CAS trigger wheel.

[Chickenman]

 

Ignition timing is dead on, using the 12 tooth window for Home, the Tooth Offset has no affect (so it's zero), and the trigger angle is 100°. The ECU gets engine RPM from the 6X trigger signal (per Haltech).

Something doesn't sound right there. Tooth offset should change the timing. Do you have the Trigger Lock turned on when syncing CAS timing and ECU? Sounds like a software configuration issue.

 

Exactly what specific trigger wheel are you using?  12 Tooth wheel does not sound like a factory Nissan CAS wheel. Not clear to me....

 

Can you also post up a screenshot of your Trigger settings?

 

Edit: Also, what version of ECU manager are you running and what Firmware version on the ECU? I've noticed that Haltech recently updated the Platinum PRO Software and Firmware to use 24 +1 trigger wheel variants on Nissan GTR's. They may have done something similar on the Platinum Sprint 2000.

 

I'm on a Vakay right now in Whistler, so I really don't want to be using all my time researching Software and Firmware change logs. If you could post up the requested info, that would help a lot. Margarita and the Bellini sisters are calling my name now... so chow for now!!!

Edited September 19, 2016 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

Edit: Just for full disclosure. I've never installed a Haltech PS2000 on a RB engine. But I do have a pretty darned good understanding of various stand alone EFI systems in general. Most of my experience has been with Audi/VW Bosch ME XX ECU's and tuning/setting up the occasional Megasquirt. I'm just throwing out some possible cause and effect

 

That being said. I wonder if you loaded the wrong Base File? Nissan engines have different CAS wheel configurations depending on what year and model of car they came in. So it's important to load the correct Base Map. Haltech sorts Base Maps by Car generation...so it's important to select the right subfolder ( R32,R33,R34,R34V2 etc ). Also note that there are different subfolders and Files for Pro series ECU's and Sport series ECU's. It's all a bit confusing, but loading the wrong Base Map can really mess things up from what I've seen.

 

 

Here's a Print Screen of what I found for default settings for an R32 GTR/Skyline. Settings vary from what you seem to have. Note Trigger angle and Trigger offset. Home does seem to choose 24. As mentioned, there are different Generations of RB CAS trigger wheels, and it would help to know what you have. Haltech decoding is different for the different wheels.

 

ECU Manager 1.14.

PS 2000 Firmware 1.13.0 ( Note Halwin recommends updating to latest firmware which is 1.13.1 )

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Chickenman

[cheftrd]

Thanks for the replies. Got it worked out yesterday...

 

Was able to spin the CAS 180° and use the 24 tooth window as Home...same problem.

 

Next step: Even though the signal at the ECU is clean on the o-scope, I couldn't get away from it being an engine problem. So I figured we'd spin it without using the engine. I pulled the CAS again, didn't have drill, as I was at the owners house, so I wrapped a string around the CAS shaft, turned off the injectors,  and gave at a whirl. Datalog showed a CLEAN ramp with no drop-out's. That turned on a bunch of lights for me. So with the CAS out, cranked the engine...
 

...and the L distributor spins the opposite way...

 

Wrapped the string again, only to spin it backwards, gave it a whirl, and the drop-out's were back.

 

Pulled up a known-good waveform I have for Nissan 6 cylinder CAS and started counting teeth.

 

When spun in the correct direction, there are 60 falling edges on the Trigger signal between each falling edge of the 6X windows used for Home signal. The 6X windows are all uniquely sized 4-8-12-16-20-24 teeth. When the CAS is spun backwards, there are 56 falling edges on the Trigger signal for 5 of the Home falling edges, and then one 80 falling edge signal.

 

 

If I counted right, if using the rising edge on the Home signal, that should give you 60 teeth on the Trigger signal. Going to try this today, and if there's still something goofy, I'll put a 24-1 AEM disk in it.   

 

 

Interesting that this is a kit that's sold here in Japan, but no mention of trigger problems, that I can find. With the uneven count running backwards, there's no way it would run any EFI without the ability to change edges, or a custom disk, etc...

Edited September 20, 2016 by cheftrd

[winstonusmc]

Is there a way to just flip the disk over? That would re align it to the correct orientation.

[Chickenman]

^ agreed. Or change the Trigger setup from Falling edge to Rising edge. That should correct for the change in Rotation direction. Then again the AEM 24 +1 trigger wheel works great as well.  And it should  be configured as a 24 Plus 1 ring... not a 24 minus 1 ring.... as per Haltech Software and Firmware revisions for Nissan RB enigines.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Chickenman

[cheftrd]

Is there a way to just flip the disk over? That would re align it to the correct orientation.

 

 

That's what I did. When I talked to Matt at Haltech, he thought flipping it was a better option, too. There's something in the way the trigger is set up when Nissan optical is selected, that doesn't like rising edge. Conversely, when using an Elite system, it wants to see riding edge.

 

Anyway, flipped it over, and only had to slightly elongate the two holes for the screws. Going to try to get over and give it a crank today. Fingers crossed, but 99% sure this will work.

 

[winstonusmc]

Have you messed around too much with the elite systems? I wouldnt mind moving over to the elite as it can do electric throttle.

[cheftrd]

Got it fired up today. Runs like a champ.

 

I've done 6 Elite systems so far. The Elite system is much, much more sophisticated. Even though the tuning software seems kind of the same, it's not. There's a lot more stuff to monkey with, and not a lot of definitions or explanations. It's a very advanced level system that requires advanced level knowledge. I really struggled with it at first, it was a steep learning curve. The online support is pretty good though. Using the ESP software with a wireless internet connection, the guys at Haltech can help with troubleshooting remotely if you need it. They've also been really helpful at answering questions and explaining things in depth.

[winstonusmc]

That's awesome you got it shared away. That's car is very beautiful, would love to see a video of it out on the road. I would love to dive into Haltech, but I am spoiled with MS right now, well at least the price point.

[cheftrd]

^ agreed. Or change the Trigger setup from Falling edge to Rising edge. That should correct for the change in Rotation direction. Then again the AEM 24 +1 trigger wheel works great as well.  And it should  be configured as a 24 Plus 1 ring... not a 24 minus 1 ring.... as per Haltech Software and Firmware revisions for Nissan RB enigines.

 

 

For some reason, the Platinum systems don't like using rising edge on Nissan Optical. No idea why, but I tried that early on with this car, with bad results. That's probably why I didn't consider it rotating backwards...LOL. 24-1 to me means twenty four dash one, as in twenty four on the trigger, and one on the home   I'm really hard to understand sometimes... I almost never use missing tooth triggers, so it never crosses my mind that I might be confusing the hell out of people LOL. Sorry.

 

Anyway, these CAS adapters from Dookies have a less-that-desirable shaft quality. If I'm ordering the parts, I'll use a Scorcher unit from Performance Ignition in the future.

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Matt

[Chickenman]

Glad you got it sorted. Sometimes the simplest things can drive you nuts. Do you have a link to your FB page build? I'd like to have a look see. Thanks.

 

Richard

[winstonusmc]

Its not his car, but he does have a shop page. I will let him link it if he wants to.

[cheftrd]

Glad you got it sorted. Sometimes the simplest things can drive you nuts. Do you have a link to your FB page build? I'd like to have a look see. Thanks.

 

Richard

 

Link to my page which has some of the stuff on it: https://www.facebook.com/mjrperformance/

 

I mostly just dabble in high performance these days. Nothing very serious. Build and tune engines for a couple of teams. Sell, install, and tune Haltech when time permits. 

 

Don't know if you can view without being friends, but this is his Hakoska album: https://www.facebook.com/kazuma.okuhama/media_set?set=a.489249354470777.1073741825.100001571511640&type=3

 

...and Z album: https://www.facebook.com/kazuma.okuhama/media_set?set=a.109482819114101.12869.100001571511640&type=3

 

...and Z restore album: https://www.facebook.com/kazuma.okuhama/media_set?set=a.1162347173827655.1073741829.100001571511640&type=3

 

If you send me a friend request, you also might get in that way... https://www.facebook.com/matt.hutchens.7

Edited September 30, 2016 by cheftrd