Measurements for CD009 and R154 and trans tunnel

[seattlejester]

I've heard of that one, completely forgot about it though. 

 

I'm pretty happy with where it sits, and I have it close enough to order a drive shaft at least. Sealing up the hole and remounting the proportioning valve is going to be an ordeal, but this also gives me the chance to install my new hydro and line lock so silver lining.

 

[Geno750]

Time to bust out those 3d Printing skills you've been working on and print some covers out of TPU. They should be durable and heat resistant enough to last. That's what I'm going to be doing. I planned to send you some stl's but after having to undergo another round of ankle surgery, I got bored. This was the result.

 

[seattlejester]

That is one tall delta, specs? Mine is maybe 1/2 the size lol.

 

It is pretty intrusive for sure, and the exhaust and trans make quite a bit of heat. I was tempted to just put the exhaust out the fender in the front and save myself a lot of fab work, but I also kind of want this to be street-able which will most likely mean a muffler and maybe a cat or at least a resonator in the future. 

 

I think I'll most likely do something similar as to what I had, but cover up the front with a plate held in by riv-nuts and the rear will be some type of box I think with a rubber cover of some sort. Definitely just going to wrap it with insulation for the time being. I don't think mine is capable of printing TPU and with the interactions required for fine tuning I don't think I want to sink that much time into it. This is definitely more involved then I had hoped.

[seattlejester]

Some small details.

 

The reverse switch pigtail is available from wiring specialties. $14 or so shipped

 

Good luck finding the socket/cap allen head bolts if they are missing from the adapter plate. For some reason the american version of the metric bolts get coarser as they go up, very annoying to try and find any in stock. Belmetric is your friend, super affordable even factoring in shipping. $24 for full replacements plus extras.

 

The slave cylinder port is supposedly a 10mm inverted flare. I have yet to verify. On a VQ setup these are replaced quite often along with the clutch slave I'm guessing from how the exhaust is run so it may be advisable to replace it to prevent worn or melted internal seals.

 

The dowel pins for the adapter plate to transmission have a nissan part number of 11010C if I'm not mistaken, it is on my laptop will correct. Downfall of buying used, but for about half price I can't really complain.

 

Be prepared to take a hit on the drive shaft. $580 is the quote I got, the differential flange and the input flange were $200+ alone. Mckinney offers one for $525, but I think they have a bit of a lead time plus shipping of course. 

 

 

[Geno750]

That drive shaft cost is what pushed me firmly over to the TR6060 camp. Slip yoke was so much cheaper and easily available. My delta printer is a D300VS+. I can squeeze about 17" tall parts on it as long as they are 11" or smaller in diameter.

[seattlejester]

Yea scratch that that is almost 3 times my build area, probably like 9 times the build volume.

 

If I didn't get a deal on pretty much every piece this would definitely not be a viable option unless I picked it from the beginning. I think in the end I'll come out a little ahead if everything sells for a good price.

[seattlejester]

The dowel pins for the bell housing on the VQ are part number: 30412H1001

 

The bolts that mount the transmission mount to the transmission are M10x1.5 if I'm not mistaken, M10x1.25 won't thread in but my normal labeled M10 which seem coarse thread in all the way. 

 

Also found out that the Z32 mount I believe will work in this application as well. It may be more desirable as it sits more flush giving the exhaust more room if you do a flat mount. With the energy suspension mount you have to tuck the side up if you want to try and tuck the exhaust up in the tunnel.

 

The two starter holes on the VQ engine thread into the transmission, these holes along with the two holes at the bottom need to be drilled through on the transmission to allow the bolts to slide in and thread into the adapter plate.

[seattlejester]

Seems like I have an earlier plate/kit. Pretty disappointed with quite a few bits of it.

 

The starter bolts were designed to thread in from the transmission side of the adapter plate. That means if something goes wrong with the starter you have to drop this heavy ass transmission. I welded two socket bolts in there so that I can service the starter without doing so. I think the newer kits use a stud, granted most ones are now the A340 swap.

 

There were no locating dowels on my plate. Newer kits seems to have room for them.

 

The pilot adapter is also super odd. The OD of the adapter is a friction fit with the flywheel. Given that you have to install this bushing like 3/8 of an inch out to get 1/2 an inch or so of engagement with the input shaft having it friction fit forces the flywheel to knock it in as you try to get it on. The crank face (where the flywheel sits is 9mm behind the bell housing flange. The adapter plate is 16mm. Leaving about 3/8 of an inch of gap yields 25mm from the flywheel flange. The input shaft sits about 12-13mm proud of the bell housing. You can see the problem. I didn't measure, but I know you can put it in at least another 1/4 of an inch or 6mm. That leaves barely 6mm of engagement for the input shaft. Not a huge deal, but a poor design. Making the adapter sit proud and the flywheel a non interference fit would remove all questions.

 

Kind of reiterates testing the stuff before you put it on the engine, I shaved my adapter on while it was on the crank so the flywheel could go on without forcing it in deeper. I've seen others put it in after, I worry that the double friction when you try to get it past the flywheel and into the crank would require enough force to deform the aluminum adapter.

 

You also have to drill out holes in the transmission as the threads in the plate are huge and the bolts won't fit without massive hole enlargement.

 

The guy who had this kit before me either modded his engine or only had a couple bolts holding the engine together as the ones he included don't work for 4 or so of the 7 holes.

[Geno750]

Freeze the adapter and heat up the flywheel. Then you're only friction fitting against one thing. That does sound rough. I sold my CD008 and Maverick adapter after running into literally every problem you just typed out. I just ordered my OSGiken twin plate, they swapped to the Corvette hub for me for free. So it's bolt on and uses a Honda Civic pilot bearing. 

 

Now if I was doing it again, I'd buy the kit for the CD/JK trans that has you cutting off the factory housing and bolts to a J1/J2 housing. It lets you do the same thing, order off the shelf multi plate, switch to a Nissan hub. Find a pilot bearing with the right od/id and your up and running.

[seattlejester]

Adapter was frozen, I didn't want to heat the flywheel up too much as I didn't want to ruin the RMS. I think it really just needs to be machined down. The flywheel is machined to index on the crank so that really can't be changed. I'm sure if you install the flywheel and super freeze the adapter it may slide in easier, granted in another post someone else said to take sand paper to it as well so must be a normal thing.

[seattlejester]

Top two bolts are nigh inaccessible even with the engine moved forward, here is where an extra inch or so would be worth gold. The CD009 has a thick flange right where the bolts go through, probably 30mm or so that moves it even further back. I can get bolts in and started using trickery, but no chance in getting them tight. Tempted not to run them, either that or I'll have to resort to dropping the trans and hoping to get a long extension on them each time.

[seattlejester]

Something I have not heard or seen before for this application. Seems chassis mount shifters are a thing now.

https://www.facebook.com/BellRaceworks/

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The allure would be a fairly simple way of mounting the shifter no tig welder required. You would have to have some play either in the shifter retainer or nearly solid mount the transmission to the body as the shifter would be attached to the transmission tunnel. 

 

How it looks with a shifter relocator pushing it forward. As it is mounted now, your elbow does rub the back of your seat on the lower gates. The shifter extension helps push it forward out of the way enough that it isn't too much of a bother. The extra height makes for a longer shift, granted this is on a short shifter so they cancel each other out somewhat, but still a fairly long throw.

If I had all the time and space I would suggest moving the assembly forward another 2 inches or so. The engine would still sit behind where the stock L series would, you wouldn't have to cut the shifter hole, and you would have access to the top bolts on the transmission. In my application with my crank mounted trigger wheel, that is a bit of a riskier prospect.

[ZHoob2004]

I may be missing something (never dealt with these transmissions before), but would having the shifter pivot mounted to the chassis really cause any problems due to the transmission moving? As long as the shift lever pivot allows enough extra freedom of movement that it never binds I don't think there would be any problems with the pivot being solid.

[seattlejester]

Some other information.

 

350z driveshaft is carbon fiber sleeve over a metal splined section. You can cut the sleeve and pry it off. Not sure how sturdy just the splined section is.

My shop charged a little over $500 for the driveshaft all said and done. I think they cut me a deal since they were a part they rushed did not show up. They had the spicer joint in stock and they upped the u-joints to 1310's if I'm not mistaken. The 1310 is a big joint and requires a big flange, the stock bolts seems to work, but you cannot use the lock washers if you want full thread engagement, I used flanged locking nuts and loctite.

 

Use bread or wet newspaper to try and push out the bearing, skip the grease as it has a chance of blowing out the seals.

 

If you have an old plate it wants you to bolt the starter through the adapter plate.

If you have the means drill through the starter and weld appropriate sized hex bolts to the plate. Will keep you from having to drop this heavy f*er of a transmission if your starter goes bad.

 

The holes for the flywheel are not blind. That means they are open to the crank case through the crank and additionally means oil can seep out. You want to use a thread locker of course. 243 is an updated formula with better retention against non adherent surfaces from what I understand, so it is recommended for this application. Some people have used FIPG, others have used the red 272. 

I used the 243 as someone said it due to its properties acts more like a sealant as well as a thread locker. When I pulled my old flywheel off no oil was to be seen.

 

As others have pointed out the pilot bearing adapter should not sit flush or bottom out. Measuring it I believe it has something like 7mm of engagement if you do bottom it out. Less if the bearing pushes in. Online someone said to leave about 1/4 inch or so. The number 16mm stays in my mind for desired engagement.

The pilot adapter is also a tight fit to the flywheel. People have suggested taking the outer diameters down to make room. I did as I wanted to make sure the flywheel did not push in the adapter. Check this first and save yourself some head ache.

An old bolt and in my case a heavy duty zip tie lets you torque the flywheel bolts without having to rely on someone to hold the crank. Instructions say to torque to 56ft lbs in 20lb increments. Someone suggested 70 after reading the ARP instructions, but I wasn't sure if they looked up these extra long bolts going into aluminum or the shorter stock style bolts. I torqued mine to 60 just to round it out.

 

 

 

[seattlejester]

46 minutes ago, ZHoob2004 said:

I may be missing something (never dealt with these transmissions before), but would having the shifter pivot mounted to the chassis really cause any problems due to the transmission moving? As long as the shift lever pivot allows enough extra freedom of movement that it never binds I don't think there would be any problems with the pivot being solid.

 

Hmm in that design it should be able to handle any side to side play, the problem would be if you encountered the play while shifting the gate may shift from where you are used to as in if you are used to moving towards the power button on the radio to engage 3rd or something, you may have to move towards the rewind button or something if you have a normal rubber mount and you are trying to shift while going through a corner. With it mounted on the transmission you would always be shifting it in reference to where the knob started as the shifter would rotate with the shifter. I guess problem may be too harsh of a phrase, maybe inconsistency?

[ZHoob2004]

It's hard to say how much of a problem that would really be without trying it, IMO. And with a shorter shift lever that could be reduced even further. I think the real tricky part would be that the lever will be moving opposite the direction of the engine during torque application, backwards from most cars.

 

Another issue I just thought of is that on stock-like mounts the tail of the transmission probably doesn't just move side to side, but more likely in an arc/ellipse which means there is an up/down component that might need to be considered, unless the shift linkage already takes care of that.

 

Not sure if it's relevant or not, but old manual transmission Hondas (FWD) use a shifter setup that's somewhere in between chassis mount and transmission mounted. There is a long linkage assembly that is mounted between the transmission and chassis with rubber bushings and the shift lever pivot is contained in the tail end of the linkage. Later K-series Hondas use a cable actuated shifter which would need to be adapted to a rwd transmission, but would allow complete freedom of lever placement.

 

Another option would be a linkage setup between the original shifter on the transmission and a newly fabricated lever on the floor, but I don't think that would really solve many of the issues except for moving the shift lever forwards.

[seattlejester]

Concurred, just pointing out a potential interference point. I think most people will run a poly mount anyways, and given the weight of this transmission I will say even that seems like it allows for quite a bit of squish and movement depending on the durometer (sp), but probably will be minimal overall. I'm not really planning on dropping any more money at the moment, and I'm pretty happy with my setup, just putting it out there it is an option.

 

A remote setup would be interesting, but you would have to engineer a reverse mechanism to flip the setup pattern or do something like a 180, 180. Really either moving the transmission forward a few inches or buying the forward mount shifter and running an offset shifter backwards would be the easier option. I will say I am curious about the solid shift housings. The CD009 ones which have rubber bushings on the shift tower has a surprising amount of play. Probably to mitigate NVH, but it can make the shifting feel a bit inprecise.