Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 (confrontational post replaced with a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hey folks, this post originally was intended to discuss a Pro Drag Z-car buildup and ironically it has taken more turns than an F1 racer. PLEASE, lets get this interesting topic back on track. - He is building a Pro Drag Car - He MUST, repeat, MUST run a Nissan engine. Lets not introduce heated debates or comparisons of anything not relevant to the topic. I would hate to have to lock the thread because I have a great interest in the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Where's the beef? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Jamie, you have a 240Z and you want to drag race it. It has to have a non-V8 Nissan engine and you want at least 1,000 hp from it. For the best bang for the buck, I'd choose the single turbo VG30DET. A drag car doesn't need streetability so having one huge turbo won't be a problem for you. I understand that you want something with some hype, something that stands out. But since you said you're working on a small budget I think the VQ35 is out of the question. So far it is unproven if it can handle the power you want. It may, or it may not handle it. It would be risky to devote money and time developing the VQ if there's the possibility that it won't reach your goal. I agree that the VG has been done many many times before, but I'd use that to your advantage. It's like the Mustang's 5.0, it's been done so many times there's a huge knowledge base of what works and what doesn't. So it's safe to go with the sure thing, something which has already been done. Both the VG engines and the RB engines will reach your goal, so I guess you'll have to choose from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 The VQ35 has been around for awhile. It's been in the Maxima, pathfinder, the trucks, etc for a number of years. It has a forged crank and chains instead of a belt. I'm guessing anything the VG can do the VQ can do better. Gonna be more pricey than VG since it is newer, but still, there's plenty of them in the yards. Nissan puts that motor in almost every vehicle they sell here. Why not get a couple of used truck VQ35s, custom manifolds, a big turbo and aftermarket EFI. Gotta be cheaper than an RB, should be as stout as the VG (or more likely stouter). I think if you can manage to fine tune it to high HP on stock internals, you could get a whole lot of publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Along the lines of Jeromio's post, my understanding was all the VQ blocks were iron. Someone said,(can't find which post), that the 350z motor is an aluminum block? I don't know much about the 350z, but I'm not sure that is correct? Anyone, Buller? If that is true, the trucks should have an iron block, and would be more sturdy for a serious buildup. Come to think of it Jamie, the truck blocks might be a good start....and inexpensive to boot! (well, compared to a 350z block...) -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by jeromio:The VQ35 has been around for awhile. It's been in the Maxima, pathfinder, the trucks, etc for a number of years. It has a forged crank and chains instead of a belt. I'm guessing anything the VG can do the VQ can do better. . In naturally aspirated form that's true. But how many VQ's have we seen under high boost? Will the aluminum block take it? It's an open deck design, right? Will the heads stay sealed under the heat and strain of a high boost applications? Or will it warp? Didn't Ford switch from the aluminum block the Cobra was using back to a cast iron block when they supercharged the new Cobra? If the aluminum block was up to the task why did they switch? It may hold up, I don't know, but I've heard of problems with open deck aluminum blocks and forced induction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Word on the street is that Nissan is using the VQ35 as the engine for the new Skyline. Using twin turbos, it will probably be in the 300hp range (rated at 280ps of course ) If Nissan does do this, you can be rest assured that they're confident the block will never blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Bob H:Along the lines of Jeromio's post, my understanding was all the VQ blocks were iron. Someone said,(can't find which post), that the 350z motor is an aluminum block? I don't know much about the 350z, but I'm not sure that is correct? Anyone, Buller? All the VQ blocks are aluminum. That includes the trucks, the Altima, the Maxima, and the 350Z. That's why I said to get the VG, it's almost the same as the VQ, but is cast iron. It's only 3 liters though instead of 3.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Dan0myte:Word on the street is that Nissan is using the VQ35 as the engine for the new Skyline. Using twin turbos, it will probably be in the 300hp range (rated at 280ps of course ) If Nissan does do this, you can be rest assured that they're confident the block will never blow. Hmm, I've heard this also, but I also heard from other sources that it's going to use a TT V8, possibly the V8 from the Q45. I guess we'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Yeah, it sounds like America will get a V8 version, while Japan will get the VQ35DETT. You could create a hybrid VG engine. Take a VG33 block from a Pathfinder, put the Z32 DOHC head onto it and a big single turbo. You'd be looking at a VG33DET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Originally posted by Dan0myte:You could create a hybrid VG engine. Take a VG33 block from a Pathfinder, put the Z32 DOHC head onto it and a big single turbo. You'd be looking at a VG33DET. The Z31 guys looked into this a while back and found out some info. The VG33 block is similar to the old VG30E block, which was in the Z31 model 300ZX (1984-89). Z31 heads may fit on it, but I don't know if anyone has tried. The Z32 (1990-up) 300ZX's VG30DE block isn't the same as the older block. They look almost the same but the coolant passages and everything else is in a different spot, so the heads from the later Z will not fit on the earlier Z's block. So unfortunately you wouldn't be able to fit DOHC heads on the VG33. But the bottom end is almost the same, and from I hear you can use the crank and rods from the later Z on it, but not the heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Hmmm, dyno plots of a VG motor. First, any plots of anything other than dyno queens for power above 700 hp is hard to come by. The people producing serious power for drag racing often don't want their competition to know exactly how much power they are producing or where in the powerband they have it. But with that in mind, I did find this VG30dett plot: (specs are: bored out to 3.2L, running 20psi on pump gas, GT2350's for the turbo's): I don't think it is an unreasonable jump to say another 1-200 hp could be found with race gas, more boost and tuning. Now you are approaching 1000 hp at the flywheel,(in the 900 range to get 700+ at the wheels). And there is always bigger turbo's, bigger intercooler, nitrous, etc.. And this was a "daily driver". So an all out race effort I think it is not hard to stretch and see a VG at 1000+ hp. All we have proven is both the RB and the VG can produce that kinda power. With an aluminum, open-deck design, I would put a cap at about 7-800 hp for the VQ motors. Just my uneducated guessing though. With enough money you can make elephants fly. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Looks like a Supra dyno heh. I'll see what I can find in the way of 20PSI JZ curves when I've got a chance. Isn't the Pathfinder also using some derivative of that VQ block? These blocks may be easier to come by than it might seem at first if this is the case. Our O2 Pathfinder might have one of them but I'm not sure (is what I was told anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MegaShaft_2000 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by BLKMGK:Isn't the Pathfinder also using some derivative of that VQ block? These blocks may be easier to come by than it might seem at first if this is the case. Our O2 Pathfinder might have one of them but I'm not sure (is what I was told anyway). Yes. The Pathfinder uses the VQ35, as does the Infinity QX4, the Murano, the Altima, the Maxima, the Infinity G35, and the 350Z. The blocks are all identical. They're all DOHC. They're probably just cammed differently, and the heads may be different, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dan0myte Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Here's my best attempt at matching up a 2JZ dyno with the dyno posted above. This is a 615hp 2JZ, which is as close as I can get to the 580hp VG30 dyno. Green/Black: VG30 Blue/LightBlue: 2JZ You can see that the VG30 is very dominant from 3000 - 4900 rpm. Then from 5000 on, the VG30 slowly eases off while the 2JZ continues to climb. At 5500 rpm, there's a difference of 80ft/lb of torque between the two. It would be pretty beneficial to increase the rev limit on the 2JZ in this example, while a higher redline in the VG30 wouldn't be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Looks like a Supra dyno heh. I'll see what I can find in the way of 20PSI JZ curves when I've got a chance. Please don't as we have had enough trouble keeping the subject focused for Jamie. Nissan is his only choice. I tried to find some RB plots, but no luck. I found some 600 hp plots, but they are mapped differently and are in KW vs speed vice HP vs rpm. And I think it was 28psi with different turbo's, so not a good comparison. So Jamie, what is the timeframe the owner will decide? I take it this is an effort for a year from now? You still haven't said what the overall goals are, (I realize you may not know that). Just curious. -Bob PS-Lets not start this again. First, we have no information as to what turbo(s) the supra was running, boost, head work, etc..? Without that info, comparing a 600hp car to a 600 hp car is like comparing a 600 hp diesel to a 600 hp F1 engine. Since this is obviously a hot topic, I suggest starting a new thread for those who want to discuss the 2JZ vs the VG or RB or any other motor. Please keep this one on topic about possible Nissan engines for Jamie's shop. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 double post. internet retard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Poof. Thanks guys. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Just push this button Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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