ratedZ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Hello everyone...this is my first post here and I wanted to say WASSUP to the new names. I'm sending out my stock t3 unit to Majestic in a few weeks and I wanted to be armed with the right kind of information when they ask me what I want them to do to it. I don't know what set-up is the best so if you guys could, please let me know like what type of impaler I need, specs, etc (someone at Zdriver also told me to get the fins clipped...he didn't elaborate so please take a stab at it.) And oh yeah, this is what I need so please give me the choices accordingly....I need the turbo to be efficient up to 20psi and be able to support up to 350 horses and it needs to be able to spool fairly quickly....that's it. Not too much to ask for is it? lol. Anyway, I'll leave it to you guys. Thanks. ------------------ ratedZ My 1983 280zx Turbo The Datsun 280zx Message Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 I need the turbo to be efficient up to 20psi and be able to support up to 350 horses and it needs to be able to spool fairly quickly....that's it. My advice to you is to not ask this forum. You do not need to know anything about impellers, trim, etc. Just tell Majestic exactly what you said above and let them spec out the turbo for you. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 What Scottie said.... But check this link out -- http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html And 20 psi sounds a bit high for just 350 hp -- for my engine at 15 psi boost, the calculator gives me 370 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Yes if you don't know anything about turbos that is the best way to go. Things you will want to tell him and options you may want. 1) Weight of car 2) Size of engine 3) 2V head 4) Useage ie 80% street 20% strip 5) Octane of gas You probably want water cooled for reliability. Majestic is pretty good and will walk you through the entire process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratedZ Posted March 27, 2001 Author Share Posted March 27, 2001 Cool...I'm glad you guys told me that because I was scrambling for specs and best set ups before I sent it out. Thanks guys and thanks for the link also. 15psi...370hp...wow I can't wait! ------------------ ratedZ My 1983 280zx Turbo The Datsun 280zx Message Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie-GNZ Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Whoa, Guys. I hope I do not bust anyone's bubble but 370hp from 15# boost? Flywheel HP, yes, but I do not believe the stock components flow well enough to make 370RWHP from just 15# boost. I believe it is going to take headwork, cam, big turbo and a programmable system. This, of course, is my opinion and others can chime in. ------------------ Scottie 71 240GN-Z Scottie's GNZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 You are probably mostly right. But those "theoretical" numbers came from a stock displacement L28, T-04 S3-trim turbo efficiencies at 15psi boost, and intercooler efficiency of 80%. Naturally the fuel system must be built to handle it, and the intake and exhaust restrictions reduced to the point where you can still meet the turbo efficiencies. This power is also made at at 7000 rpm redline, which is probably a little bit high, especially for the stock cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 I have beem fortunate enough to dyno a number of turbo configurations on Z-cars. And now that I am no longer working for a particular performance shop, I can let everyone in on my experience. I can say, without a doubt, the most impressive Garrett STREET turbo for a Z I have found is a T3/T4E stage V 69A/R 50 trim. It has phenominal spool up (starts at 1700rpm, and 280+ ft/lb of torque at the wheels by 3000rpm on a dynojet), and is capable of 450+ at the wheels. If you want the double throw down set-up, add the Turbonetics ball bearing option. Overall it is a hard combination to beat. The flow and size seems to be perfectly matched to the 2.8L L28 eng. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Hi Stealth, glad you found us. I remember seeing your car at the Atlanta convention in 95 (in primer) reading about your car and the dyno runs on your setup on the Z mail lists, etc. 450hp out of the L6 - that's impressive. What kind of torque did that setup (T3/T4E stage V 69A/R 50 trim) have at say 200 rpm? Also, what do the ball bearings buy you, even lower spool rpm? Welcome, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clint78z Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Hey Stealth good to have you on the forum, any updates on the car lately?? Those are some very impressive #'s for the dyno. I am hoping my spoolup will be fairly close with the T3/T04E-57mm stage III. Probably won't be quite as good, due to the larger wheel diameter, might have a little more up top though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Glad to see you found us Steve. I've read the writups on your car at zhome.com quite a few times. I'm sure others could answer this better for you Pete, but ball bearings typically give you faster spool up, and largely increased longevity in the turbos. I would guess that the ball bearings would also help you achieve full spoolage (I just made up a word) at a lower engine RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 TimZ, please chime in on this one so I am not alone. I doubt you will be able to generate 450rwhp from that turbo on an L motor, maybe not even on a new Supra motor. The max flow from that wheel, at its worst efficiency, is 48lb/min or about 650cfm. This translates into about 415hp@flywheel. Unless you have the ability to lower your BSFC from some magical head configuration you will not get those #'s. Now, both TimZ and myself have run a few turbo's and can give you the practical results. TimZ used to run the TS04 turbo @20-21psi and generated 376hp@wheels (dynoed). Now this compressor wheel is rated at 55lb/min max or about 465hp@flywheel. TimZ now runs the T64 turbo as I also do and based on his software the car makes about 450hp@wheels @20psi of boost. He will hit the dyno early next month. I used to run the 60-1 and ran 12.24@120.2 which translates into about 363hp@wheels w/19psi of boost. Granted this was not tuned for max power so I think another 30-40hp was possible, giving the possibilities of about 390hp@wheels @19psi of boost. The 60-1 flows about a max of 800cfm or 500hp@flywheel. Try to be realistic when sizing your turbo and for 99% of the applications you will not want to run 25+psi of boost to generate the big hp#'s The L motor do not generate the power like other motors do because we have 2 valves per cylinder and not 4, non-crossflow heads and 20+year old combustion chamber technology. Just don't be mad when you get a turbo that is too small and doesn't make the #'s you want. I would get a turbo that flows between 600-650cfm to generate the 350mark without having to run 25psi of boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 Hey guys, thanks for the greeting. It's been a while since I have had the opportunity to 'surf' the Z-car sites. I also want to extend a special 'thanks' to 240Z turbo for the warm words, and making me feel welcome on this site. RatedZ - If you want, I can get you in touch with the individual that owns the Z with the aforementioned turbo. I can also supply some dyno graphs of his car, but it will be this weekend until I will be down at the dyno again. Pete - The Ball Bearings actually did something unexpected during our testing of a prototype T3/TO4E turbo for Turbonetics. The BB turbo did spool up slightly quicker than the non-BB, but the surprising thing is that it made more HP on the top end at the same boost level. Turbonetics stated they found this to be true in their later testing of other BB models. Clint - Well, as far as updates on the car, there really isn't much new. I had a custom cage welded in and I had to put a used tranny in the car because 5th gear went out on the way to Vegas (Z Conv) last year. But that's about it. I haven't touched the car since last summer (I purchased a 'designer' Toyota (IS300)last July and have been distracted with it lately). The Skyline motor is still sitting in my '77 Z, ignored and I'm sure, feeling unloved. Your 57 trim should do well for your Z, it is only slightly different than the 50 trim (not quite as efficient at lower airflows), and very close to the higher flow of the 60 trim one of my best friends is using successfully on his 77 Z. Drax - One of the strange things about the BB turbo (vs non-BB) is it feels noticeably quicker in transient responses, although the dyno doesn't really show it to the degree you would think. And James - I'm glad to see you still have the same enthusiasm for your Z, and didn't give up on your car after 'tying the knot'. In answer to you query, the 450whp for that turbo was not measured on a Z, alas it was on a Toyota MR2 (2.2l 4cyl) project car we built for Sport Compact Car magazine. Bob Norwood spent many a night at the shop tuning on the dynojet using one of his Motec M48 systems. Also, always keep in mind, the turbo maps and numbers are good for reference, but as I am sure you have found yourself, things tend to perform differently in real world applications (and I in no way mean that as a 'dig'). No worries, Steve 'Stealth' Webb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted May 22, 2001 Share Posted May 22, 2001 Huh, I didn't even mention your name or make any references to you in my post. If you feel that you have something to prove then that is a different story. The maps are not there for show, they are what they are. Now, I have no doubt that some motors make more power than others with the same turbo and same boost levels, but when you start getting #'s that just don't make sense then one has to step in and say, "be careful!" My favorite article was the AWD turbo Celica in Sport Compact that made something like 450-500hp @wheels and then ran a 13.3. Yea, ok that makes alot of sense! I would say that 8 of 10 articles are full of crap about their claims. Hell, my buddy Marcus had his Turbo Integra featured in Super Street and Turbo Mag and we had a good chuckle about what was printed as far as the cars performance. Most of the time it is HYPE! Anyway, if I don't agree with what you have to say or my opinion is different you don't have to feel insulted as before and start making a fuss. I am not in competition with you and any contribution that can shed some light onto the subject of turbocharging the L is welcome. Now give me a kiss so we can make up. HEHE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 23, 2001 Share Posted May 23, 2001 I agree that there is undoubtedly a LOT of BS regarding the cars that show up in a single feature in magazines. I would definitely say only believe part of what you read. Not that it's here or there, but our project car described earlier (owned by Jeff Hartman) was in a 14 issue series over a 17mo period, utilizing 5 different turbo's with over 400 recorded dyno passes on 3 different dynojets here in TX and CA. It was sponsored by Alamo Autosports, Turbonetics, Spearco, JE pistons, Crower rods, Motec eng management, Norwood Ferrari, and several others. Well tested I would say. BTW, I know Marcus well. I have even dyno'ed his car. Anyway, enough of that. Good luck with your car... and will you please dyno that thing so we can see what it is actually making, and you can have a baseline to work with!! Steve "Stealth" Webb PS: Kiss Kiss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 75Turbo Posted May 25, 2001 Share Posted May 25, 2001 About ball bearing turbos... It seems feasabile (sp?) that a BB turbo would make more top end power due to less energy being required to spool the turbo. If it spools quicker it must have less rotational friction therefore requiring less exhaust pressure to turn it. Less exhaust pressure at the exhaust valve means lower pumping losses and more HP. Just my thoughts Nathan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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